Has the internet ruined Magic & Illusion?

By demystifying the craft, exposing its secrets, and reducing complex tricks to bite-sized content, has the foundation of all magic – mystery – been eroded?

I sat down with Cosentino, Australia’s most successful magician, illusionist and escape artist - known to audiences around the world as ‘The Grand Illusionist’ - to discuss the evolution of magic in the digital age, the impact of social media on the craft, and the emotional connections that magic creates with audiences.

We also look at the need for magicians and illusionists to develop their own storytelling and performance style, the benefits of technology in enhancing the art form, and Cosentino offers valuable advice for aspiring magicians and shares insights about his upcoming tour ‘Tricked’.

Check out the episode here.

Gareth King (00:31)

Cosentino, thank you so much for joining us today and welcome to the show.

Cosentino (00:35)

My absolute pleasure. Thank you for having me. I'm very excited to be here.

Gareth King (00:39)

Before we begin, can you tell us about your journey from just starting out to becoming The Grand Illusionist?

Cosentino (00:46)

I started magic when I was very very young, when I was 12. I was a very shy kid, very introverted, low self-esteem, this is all due to the fact that I had lot of learning difficulties. I didn't learn to read til I was 12 and it was challenging. My mother was a school principal and she was going mad and they were taking me to all these specialist classes and they were saying you know he can't see properly, so they took me to optometrist and they would say read out the letters and I couldn't read them so they gave me glasses. Which I could see perfectly well. I just couldn't read the letters and I'd basically fallen through the cracks and my mother, like I said, she was going absolutely mad, and one day she took me to the library which of course is the last place a kid who can't read wants to be and I'm there forced to look through books.

And I came across a beautiful book, that had these old Vaudevillian posters of these famous magicians from the late 1800s and early 1900s, and they look like comic books. They predate comic books, but they're hand illustrated, and they're originally designed to do massive posters to be stuck on the walls outside theatres to attract an audience and bring them in and basically it drew me in.

And I remember seeing this poster of this guy with all these handcuffs up his wrist and he was like kind of staring down the barrel of the camera. And said to my mother, who is this guy? And she said, that's Houdini. And she went on to explain who he was and what he did and how he would jump off bridges handcuffed and chained and he would do these incredible things. He'd be locked up in jail cells all across the globe and somehow got out of there. People thought he melted and de-materialised through them. And I thought, wow, this is awesome. He's like a superhero. And my mother said, he's not make-believe. He's not in the comic book. He's a real guy. He really did this.

That is what fascinated me. And so we borrowed this particular book and in the back of it, it had magic tricks designed for adults. And so my mother would patiently sit with me. She would read the tricks to me, the description of how it would look to an audience and then the method or the secret. And it was quite complicated. And it would have these little illustrations and you'd have to like read each word, analyse it, then kind of go, okay. So, I've got to put the pack of cards in my left hand and I've got to put my right pinky on this. So, you'd have to you know, really dissect everything. And that process with her patience led to me understanding what I was reading as opposed to just listening, and quite complicated too. For a kid that was 12, you know, metamorphosis and transposition and all these words, like I couldn't even read, like these are big words for a kid.

I learned some magic tricks this process, I was so fascinated. There was no internet. You couldn't learn magic through any other means. You had to go to a library, borrow a book. And I became obsessed and I learned to read. And of course reading is linked to writing and spelling, but more importantly, it was linked to my confidence. And so I could finally read and this weight was lifted and i'd gained a very unique skill. So that's how it all started. I didn't see a magician on TV or the internet or anything like that and thought, that's cool. Let's do that.

I just learned a little skill that made me feel special and unique from a kid who was coming from a place where they were very crippled. I mean, I'll be at the back of the classroom with my head down, avoid being asked a question. I'd get so embarrassed if the teacher said read out loud, obviously, because I couldn't read. So, I was disguising all these disabilities and then magic kind of really enhanced me and my personality. And that's why I think I love it so much. I'm still passionate about it over two decades later.

Gareth King (04:07)

Having been in the game for such a long time now, what would you say are the biggest changes you've seen in magic that have been born out of the internet and technology?

Cosentino (04:15)

When I grew watching magic in the 90s, it was very theatrical. So, you had people like David Copperfield, and Siegfried and Roy. Before that in the 70s, there was a guy called Doug Henning, but I would go back and watch his VHS tapes. So very, very much based on theatre and everything you saw was kind of the stage show, but filmed for television.

I'll tell you what also changed in the beginning - how you would discover magic tricks. You didn't just go into a magic shop, they started to kind of dwindle away. So you’d read a description online about a trick and then you would kind of purchase that trick or get the rights to that trick. Instead of going to a library to read a book and learn a trick, you would kind of purchase one off of a website that could be from anywhere around the world. Very often you would get something that was absolute trash, but that was the first change to me.

Gareth King (04:56)

Okay, so that's almost a different kind of accessibility even before we get into watching step-by-step breakdowns of being able to do tricks and things, which I guess is another aspect of the craft that is so readily available online right now. What would you say the biggest challenge someone like yourself who does, you know, big stage illusions, when you're in competition for attention against someone who primarily does small TikTok type videos, and does someone who can master both have an obvious advantage?

Cosentino (05:38)

It's really interesting because there's magicians even from in Australia that have massive TikTok followings or social media followings, but it doesn't necessarily mean that following translates to a live scenario. Like so in magic there's close up magic. Close up magic could be done in a restaurant or be done at a party.

Then you've got street magic, which is a bit more like busking. Then you've got theatre stage illusions. Then you've got kind of a parlour setting, which is more like stand up kind of comedy magic. So there's all these different genres. And then within that, there's like escapes, there's grand illusions, there's mentalism. So, you know, creating the illusion that you're reading people's minds or predicting the future. So, there's all these sub-genres as well. And now there's different ways to present it. Could be on TV, could be live, could be all on social media platforms.

So, because of the literal, 90 seconds to three minutes that you have, the tricks that people are presenting now seem to be, in my opinion, less theatrical and more about the just a trick. Because you kind of have no choice. Now, I come from a world where you build up the theatrics. So, for example, if I was going to do some kind of escape, instead of just doing the escape, I want to prove that I'm using real locks, that I'm really holding my breath, that there's no way for me to escape from the water tank. That in itself takes three minutes just to prove all that to the audience.

So, in order for me to tackle that when I present online, it's completely different to how I do a stage show or even a television show, even in television you can take a little more time. And that to me makes the magic more potent.

And that adds to the drama of what you're about to do. So, for me, presentation is, I mean, I know people would argue against me, but from my perspective, presentation is lost. So I don't know. I think it's challenging for me because I've got to keep switching in like okay, I'm doing this for social media so it's gonna look like this. I'm doing this for stage, it looks like that. But I think now I'm really getting a handle on how to tackle each one.

But if you were to say to me, what do I prefer doing? Even over like my own talent. I've done so much TV. I prefer live, which is so much harder to do, but it allows a little breathing room and seeing magic live, I think nobody would argue against me on this, seeing it live is far spectacular than seeing it, whether it's on TV or on social media.

Gareth King (07:57)

That’s such an interesting point because obviously you have had that huge success in the live environment and in the TV environment. And as you said, also down to say the social media environment. The live experience, even if it is being broadcast directly through a TV screen, you're still only getting one tiny piece of the puzzle. But that said, can you just quickly tell us a few of your favourite performances that you've done?

Cosentino (08:24)

Wow I'll tell you what really was very, special to me. My hero growing up in the nineties was David Copperfield and just still to this day, I think it's hard to argue against how spectacular he was and how much he changed my art form. So, I still think he's the GOAT.

And I saw him a teenager, at the Regent Theatre in Melbourne. And I was in the second row and I made sure that I got the best tickets possible and I remember sitting next to his parents. I knew who his parents were. I was a big, big fan of him and I was sitting right next to his parents. I actually gave his parents a letter that they gave to, ended up giving to David Copperfield and he ended up writing me a letter and giving me a signed poster. It was lovely.

Anyway, so the point is I'm at the Regent Theatre, I'm in the second row and I'm watching David Copperfield and it's just spectacular. And that would have been in 1998 or 99. And then in 2011, when I auditioned for Australia's Got Talent, I had to walk out on stage on the Regent Theatre. And I thought, oh my gosh, this is where David Copperfield performed. How incredible. And here I was now being in front of a live audience and being judged. It was very overwhelming.

And then exactly a year later, after Australia's Got Talent, there I was again at the Regent Theatre filming my own television special and being the first Australian ever to have their own TV special on the same stage. And it was like this really full circle moment for me. So, it's not one particular piece, but I guess it, those three pieces together in that same venue, hold a very special place in, in my heart. You know, seeing my hero auditioning on this show, and then doing my own show and being the first ever to do it. Very, very, very. So that, that, that was very very special.

But been many moments where I'm performing in Singapore, Marina Bay Sands is incredible, performing in Vietnam, being on the streets of Philippines, performing magic, like I have so many fond memories and I'm really, look it's not easy what I do, and everyone says it probably about their job, but it's very rewarding.

Gareth King (10:24)

You spoke about something there, which was that first audition on Australia's Got Talent of yours. Obviously you'd been at it for a while before that moment. From that audition, which you just talked about, to becoming like this global name was a very rapid rise. For any young magician out there that might be thinking, this is something I'm gonna do as well, what might they face today that you didn't have to face at that point?

Cosentino (10:49)

I had done 15 years prior to Australia's Got Talent of work. And when I mean work, I mean proper work, like working on cruise ships, putting on shows in shopping centres, you know 10 shows a week, doing school incursions, putting on my own theatre shows, creating my own posters, working out how to, you know, take a photo, no iPhones, no iPhones.

So, working out how to work with a photographer and pose and then going to a graphic designer, who happened to be a cousin, work sitting with them, working out how to use, you know, Photoshop and they're doing all that and there's no Canva. There was no like quick video edit and all that stuff. So I had to learn all these things.

So, 15 years to get to Australia's Got Talent and then you kind of see that quick progression, but not really quick from my I was ready for it and it kind of turbocharged everything. Actually, it took three years for me to agree to do the show, but I was doing my own shows. I agreed to do their show. I didn't even think too much about it. In actual fact, I couldn't even make my second audition because I was in some regional town doing my own show and I said, guys, I can't make it. It's all good. Don't worry about it. And they were like, no, no, no, no, we'll get you there. And they kind of worked around my schedule to get me there.

So, I was doing my own theater shows and then that turbo charged everything and all those shows sold out. lot of work to get to that point and then let it kind of skyrocket. And I guess the second part of your question was what would be the difference now? I think everything is now online and this is interesting actually – when we did Australia's Got Talent they said to us you're not allowed to post on Facebook or Instagram about your performances. That sounds like madness now doesn't it?

Gareth King (12:18)

Yeah, I have heard actually similar things around say reality shows these days. I guess the people on the shows, we'll call them the stars, you know, have their accounts kind of embargoed and managed by the networks. So, it's interesting to hear that that was happening all the way back then, before there was so much that we've learned around the impact of social media and the way that people operate online since then.

But on that point, there's two things I want to touch on as well. You know, we know that if you were a young person trying to get into it now, you've obviously got the ability to build a following and kind of create your own pathways, which weren't available to say someone like yourself. But back to the notion around performance and, you know, theatrics, which is quite a big part of what you do. In the current digital world that we're in, which elements of magic and illusion have become more important than ever? Is it that theatrics and performance and even kind of personality?

Cosentino (13:22)

Look, I'm always gonna lean towards that because that's how I kind of grew up. That's what I grew up watching. You know, my heroes were Gene Kelly and Fred Astaire and Michael Jackson and Madonna and Prince and very theatrical performers. So, I'm always gonna lean that way.

I kind of think now with social media, I believe people are very fixated on the actual trick, like getting the trick out. You got 90 seconds, get the trick out, make it be a really good trick. Now there is personality involved in it, like the way people speak or how they might present it or film it or light it. I think everything... I think what's really worthy of success in magic is presentation. It's just challenging to do that in such a short time span.

Gareth King (13:57)

Has the move towards social media and people kind of building a following via short clips, has that almost detracted from the amount of people wanting to do the big performances or is it you know is there still the same aspiration amongst people in your craft?

Cosentino (14:12)

No, I think it's the same aspiration because I see people with social media following, building up their following, their database of people and then always trying to do a theatre show. You seem to see, actually you see it a lot too with comedians who might be really hot online and all of a sudden they're doing a stand-up tour show or whatever it may be. So, I do think it always comes back to the live show no matter what happens for some reason. It still seems to come back to that.

Gareth King (14:44)

Yeah, it does feel that, what you do is so... I mean, at least to me anyway, it feels so much more special in a live kind of, let's call it analog for just the purposes of this, versus digital where you might be looking at it through a screen. I mean, you're not getting much of the vibe or anything through screen.

But how do performers today balance protecting the secrets of those live performances amongst the realities of an interconnected digital world where people are trying to expose those tricks? How much of a consideration is you're preparing or planning or performing? And is it a big hurdle to anything that you do?

Cosentino (15:25)

Yeah, I mean you can get bogged down in overthinking like, okay, so if I put like a snippet of this particular piece online, then does it give too much away of the show? Kind of like when a movie, and there's a trailer that comes out and everyone goes, all the best parts were in the trailer. You know, so yeah, I'm quite conscious of that and not giving too much away and keeping a lot of surprise, element of surprise for the live show.

And then there's another aspect of like, are people going to try and debunk all of this if it's put online and what's that? But you can get, honestly, you can get so caught up in all of that that you forget why you're doing what you're doing in the first place. All the secrets of how everything is done is readily available now. So, we come back now again to how is it presented? How are you wrapping it up? How are you packaging it? Is it entertaining?

If it's too much about the trick again, which is again, which interesting because online, to me, it's all about the trick. But if it's too much about the trick, then a huge part of that connection you make with the audience. I'll give you an example. I do a piece in the show. It's the linking rings. Everyone knows what it is. Everyone's seen it for years. It's nothing spectacular.

And I do the act because I talk about it being the first routine that I learnt as a little boy that I performed for my mother, who obviously taught me how to read and taught me magic. And she was really blown away by it. I performed it to music. It was very theatrical. And she said, it's so beautiful. You know, I love it so much. Make sure when you grow up, you never lose that.

So, I tell this story. And it's quite emotional and mothers connect with it. And then I perform the linking ring routine, which is only with two rings. It's nothing spectacular. I'm being honest about it. But the reason why we keep it is because of the story and that story connects.

And that makes that, you know, here I am hanging upside down from burning ropes, jumping in and out of water tanks, making people appear and disappear and teleport and levitate. And they remember that. So that tells you it's about an emotional connection, that kind of transforms the experience, which again, in the digital world, is a little more challenging to do than as we said in the analog world.

Gareth King (17:25)

Yeah, of course. And I think you raise a good point there that I want to go into now aswell. If everyone's kind of only got a very short window of time to communicate something like a highlight reel online, does that change your approach of producing stuff for online, or is it still you're still trying to give it as much of a sell as you can?

Cosentino (17:54)

No, no, no. Online, you're very conscious. And you're also conscious because you can tell if you do like a 3 minute, 4 minute video, it doesn't get anywhere near the same kind of attention than if you did a 30 second video or a 90 second video. So yes, I'm actually conscious of... Sometimes I don't care. It's just like, I'm just going to do it, whatever. But yeah, you do think about it. You go, geez, I can't really put a 6 minute piece up. You do. It definitely changes the approach.

And again, some people kind of, they're in that genre. So instead of them being a close up magician or a stage magician, they're like, you know, an online magician, which is totally fine. It's just a very different approach, and maybe they shouldn't be compared. Like maybe we shouldn't be saying, people who do it online aren't as good as people who do it live or vice versa. Like maybe that's not, that's not a thing.

But it's kind of like a recording artist being able to record in a studio and then you hear them live and you go, Okay, what happened there? Because I could record my trick, you know, a dozen times to get it right. I mean, you end up being a recorded magician to some degree. But again, that's not, no, you know, magicians, they hear this, it just is what it is. it's a different way to kind of get it out there.

Gareth King (18:47)

Yeah, okay. And I think on that point, you know, like once upon a time, as you mentioned, it was all very in person, you know, kind of that's where the all the mesmerising is happening and, people would have to try and figure it out. Like what, wow, how did they do that as opposed to, okay - I'm going to find out how they did that, where you try and find the link of all the steps that kind of break down the trick.

So, there's online a lot of people that kind of produce that content, which is breaking stuff down and revealing the secrets. What's generally the feeling about that stuff? Is it a good thing to be like, hey, people are interested in what I'm doing. This is great. It's more eyeballs on the art form. Or is it something you try and stay one step ahead of? Like, I've got to make something that can't be figured out by people just looking for clicks and likes by revealing my secrets.

Cosentino (20:01)

Look, I think exposing magic for the purpose of teaching, so people can learn the art form and get involved, I think that's okay. But exposing for the sake of exposing for likes, I'm not a huge fan. It reminds me of like when I was a child growing up and The Masked Magician was on TV, and he would reveal lot of tricks. And the problem was that he didn't even give you all the steps. He only gave you the steps that were interesting, so you couldn't even do the tricks anyway.

That was a whole other problem because it became very misogynistic and it was very... it kind of belittled the art form. It simplified it too much and that was a huge problem. But we got over that. But yeah, I think what happens is people fall into this trap, they're performing magic online and then maybe they show how trick is done and that gets the most attention.

So then all of sudden they go, okay - that's interesting then they do another trick online And then they do another trick where they expose it online it gets more attention again, so they go wow so what's gaining the likes or the attention is when I reveal the trick or turn the camera from behind so they see you performing to someone but the audience which would be the people online watching they can see how the trick is done.

When they realise that that gets the most attention their focus switches to that I think that's what happens,

Gareth King (21:11)

You blend that traditional kind of big performance stuff with some technology within what you're doing. Are all performers embracing technology as kind of a choice? Are they forced to? Or is there almost a segment that prefers doing things, for lack of a better word, the kind of artisanal way?

Cosentino (21:32)

I can only look at it from an outside perspective. As a magician though, in general, magicians are very quick to adapt. An example would be when the pandemic hit, straight away magicians jumped online, realised that now they're working within this frame, there's certain limitations, but there's certain advantages. Like I did so many shows online with Zoom and there's advantages to being online too.

Honestly, magicians were jumping online, putting on live shows online before anybody. I mean I saw some comedians try and do it and it was very interesting that it didn't quite have the same effect and the comedians really needed that laughter feedback. Whereas the magician, I can work with you interactively through the screen. You know, think of a number, think of a colour, wow, here it is. So magicians are really clever with technology.

In my show, there's a lot of tech being used that you're unaware of. So we have a day. So we have adapted so much. And, and that's one, if I'm being honest, that's one of the major positives I can see that technology has allowed us to do things that seemed impossible like five years ago. And again, being disguised though, so it looks very basic, like you might just be using, I don't know, a piece of paper and a pen or whatever it may be, but you know, there's a lot going on. Magicians are like, they've adapted and they've been using it a lot. Yeah, it's interesting.

Gareth King (22:59)

Yeah, cool. Yeah, no, that's a really good point and I'd like to explore that a little bit more now. So you've mentioned that you incorporate it in all these ways that no one will even know and let's keep it that way for now.

What other ways are people within the industry kind of using it to help their careers along or help get them started? We know in music a lot of youngsters might produce music say in their bedroom and then they can just put it online and get a start that way and it just kind of breaks down all those what were previously large barriers to entry for people to getting into different you know creative pursuits. Is this the same within the world of magic and illusion and how is that playing out?

Cosentino (23:38)

Yeah, absolutely. Cause I remember being a kid and having to, I hired a venue, put on a show, no audience, pretended there was no audience, filmed it all, had to hire a camera crew, you know, had to budget for all of this, save up all my money, you know, put on a show, then had to have someone edit it for me. And then we had to package it on VHS tapes, put little stickers on, and then had to get a database list of agents, managers, promoters, physically send out the VHS tape, call them, did you watch it? No, you know, write a letter.

It was just so much harder and costly to get like this tape into people's hands. Then they have to physically get the tape, put it in, push play, spend the time to watch it. So now you can just film yourself and it's acceptable. You could film yourself just sitting where I am right now, presenting the magic. And that can straight away be emailed to an agent or a manager, taking photographs or you can do it on your phone now. You don't have to bring in a professional photographer.

Filming yourself, editing yourself. All of that's now done in-house. It has lowered the entry barrier, which is a great thing. It's then when you go to the next level that there's still kind of this gap between everyone that's kind of gets interested in it and gets involved in it online and then whether it becomes like their profession and what's happening next. But I think that's a good thing about magic.

And it's exposed more people to it because of that. So yes, if you would ask me what would I have preferred? Yeah, I would have preferred to have able to have done it in person here, not having to hire a venue, and hire a camera crew or anything like that. Just hire my friend who loves filming, you know, or whatever it may be, or film myself. I don't think young people know how lucky they are in that regard, and how you can get your video into someone else's hands.

Gareth King (25:41)

Does having so many more people able to kind of access and get into the world and try their own luck essentially, does that lift the overall quality by challenging everyone to almost compete against each other to push themselves? Does you know, the saying, a rising tide lift all boats apply to your industry?

Cosentino (26:00)

Yeah, I think it does. I think having more people involved in it from coming from different, different worlds, like this mixing pot brings new ideas to it, which I've definitely seen an elevation in the quality of what people are doing. And like anything, it's like, you know, I remember in Australia, we always used to have this thing about like, oh, we don't have a really good soccer team and we're not very good at soccer.

But that's because we didn't really have training programs to get young people involved, and so you, you got to be able to nurture that. So, I think, I definitely think by that, that entry barrier being lower, I think it brings more people in. Whereas in the past, there was a lot of the shut doors. if you, if you wanted to learn magic, you really had to kind of seek it out.

Go to the library, borrow a book, spend the time, analyse it, try and work out what's going on. Go to a magic shop, join a magic club. Like all of a sudden there's lot more involved already than just being on YouTube. The magic shop, from my experience, would be like, no, you're not really ready to learn that, or they wouldn't let you learn that. Like they would gate keep it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. was pretty, like part of that sucked. Like I'm being honest, part of that was a bit like, well, why, you know, who are you to tell me that?

But then part of me is also like, It's also like, you know, when you see kids, I did some like break dance classes when I was a kid and all the kids wanted to do is learn how to do backflips. But you have to learn, like you have to, they all want to do the cool tricks, but the teacher would be like, no, you've got to learn this first or you've got to understand this foundation or you could hurt yourself or you know there's no point just learning big tricks. But some kids just wanted to learn big tricks because really what they wanted to do was show off, show the big tricks. I think that's a little bit that can happen in magic too.

So I do think in general that more people being involved and more thinking lifts, yeah, lifts the entire art form. I do.

Gareth King (27:54)

And I think that one of the things that, you know, everybody would be aware of is that that can now come very easily from anywhere around the world. And you can see what people are doing all over the globe rather than kind of your local shop where, as you said, you might get gate kept out of accessing a certain trick, which is cool.

Does, you know, with so many people kind of tuning in online does that demand for content, mean people can get burnt out trying to keep up with that demand, or do you really just focus on your own thing and if it translates down into a piece of content, That's wicked if it doesn't. Okay, cool. The bigger, the bigger performance and the bigger illusion. That's the real goal?

Cosentino (28:39)

For me, you've described me, 100%. My goal is, you know, I do television, I do live shows, and then socials are secondary. Not because I don't like it, just because to put a whole theatrical stage show together and any magician or any performer knows this, it's very, very challenging to actually do a two-hour show and do it properly and seamless and cast and crew and lighting and sound and AV and everything, costumes.

So, you know, that's what I do primarily. So that's my first focus and my first love. But I think other people, their focus would be, I just want to do the content online and, or no, I'm getting results from the content online and therefore all their focus and energy is on that, which makes sense because that's where the results are coming from.

But you can tell online magicians pretty much their focus is online.

Gareth King (29:27)

It makes sense that it would be a bit difficult to translate something that you've purposely focused on a creator to be viewed through such a tiny device, into a world where it is just so much more wondrous and big. And you know, for me personally, that's where the wow factor comes from. And I'm somebody that doesn't actually want to know how it's done.

I would rather keep, you know, some magic in the world, like if you were a kid Santa's coming or, you know, Easter bunny or whatever it is. So, I don't really want to know the secrets behind what you do, but there is a lot of people that do. And obviously there's, there's that demand for that kind of content.

Knowing that that world exists where there's an entire subsection of the audience that exists to literally just peek behind the curtain and know how it's done. Does that mean that when you create this genuine sense of wonder and disbelief in an audience, is that even more rewarding these days?

Cosentino (30:25)

Yeah, absolutely. And some degree of the live audience, everyone's got access at their fingertips to how things are done. And so when you manage to amaze and baffle and not fool, it's not about, haha, I'm really, really clever, you're not. That is never the way that I approach it. But to bring that sense of astonishment is a beautiful thing. And yes, now in today's age, it feels even more special to some degree.

This is something you learn very, very quickly as a magician. You think it's all about you in the beginning, like I got into magic because I was shy and I was introverted and I learned how to eat fire. And then I learned how to take a $5 note and change it to a 10. It was all about me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me. It's very selfish endeavour. You've practiced in your bedroom by yourself in front of a mirror, watching yourself, videotaping yourself, self, self, self, self, I'm the Grand Illusionist.

And then you realise, it's not about me at all. It's actually, and I don't know if all magicians realise that, but I definitely realise that. It's not about me. It's actually about the audience. How does the audience feel? Again, when I did that linking ring routine, how did I make them feel? I have to share a part of myself in order to move them, in order to touch their souls. And so it's not about me. And I think that's an interesting growth that you go through in the beginning. But I forgot what your first, what the actual question was.

Gareth King (31:46)

I mean you've covered it that it's more rewarding delivering that you are essentially, even though what you're doing is as a magician, you are delivering that feeling that magic exists in the world. You could draw a connection between it and say that world of professional wrestling, where if you kind of suspend your disbelief just to enjoy it for what it is, you can get it.

Although I think, you know, what you do is on another level compared to say professional wrestling. But there is parallels there between, yes, I am a fully grown adult. I know that it is a trick or it is kind of rehearsed or something. But yeah, being able to just kind of compartmentalise that and enjoy it for what it is, almost comes full circle all the way back to, you know, a hundred years ago where people were forced to just enjoy it for what it was, which was that entertainment.

Which is a very ironic thing that, you know, as technology and access to digital means has just permeated through everything, it almost generates that traditional wonderment back again by the nature of everyone being so used to seeing things that aren't as they seem online. So, when you are, you know, you're seeing it in the world, you're like, Oh my God, you know, magic does exist. And so, yeah, very special.

Cosentino (33:03)

Right, right, right.

Yes, and it becomes quite, it's very powerful, especially live because again, I go back to online or on television, and I'm very conscious of this. You can sometimes justify it. Like you'd say, that's an actor, that's set up. That's not real. If I was there, I would know how it's done. Then you come and watch the live show and you go, hmm. Well, that person's not set up because that's my brother. So that's not set up. How did he know that? Or I can't see any strings, I thought they levitated with strings. I don't see any strings. Do you see any strings? I don't see any strings. So all of a sudden you start getting sucked into it.

The same way when you go watch a concert or a sporting match, it's great watching it on TV. To some degree on TV it's better. Like you can see the commentators explaining everything about the sporting match and you can see everything really clearly. But what a difference when you're in the actual event and there's that energy around you. So, the magic show is 100% works on that.

And going back to what you said earlier, I'll just never understand the idea by exposing magic for the sake of exposing it. As you said, because it's like running around kind of saying, Hey, Christmas is coming up guys. And guess what? You know, Santa's not real. Ha ha. Like what does that do for you? Like, I'm not really sure what like all you've done is kind of like killed some poor kids. Kids like, you know, like they've had this like, oh really? Like they'll find that in their own time, you know, whether Santa's real or not real. And do you know what? What a beautiful thing to imagine like, like. You know when you first found out? Hope there's not too many children watching this. You know when you first found out you were kinda - weren't you disappointed? I know I was. I was like, oh, really? Mum and Dad? Okay, that sucks.

Gareth King (34:40)

Yeah, of course. I remember some kid told me I was in like grade two and I didn't want to believe it, you know. I was just like, I held on for a couple of days longer and then I think someone else told me and then I probably asked my parents. So, you know, like destroying someone's belief in something do it and show how clever you are is, yeah.

Cosentino (35:05)

It doesn't make sense. And I'll tell you something else that's interesting too. I, from my own experience, and again, other people may have a different experience. I have found that when I, and I'm not trying to insult anyone, when I have performed for highly intellectual people, I always find, I always used to think, oh man, they're going to dissect it. They're going to debunk it. They're going to try and, and this has happened.

I performed at conferences with, surgeons I thought this is gonna be a tough gig, this is gonna be really, really challenging and they're the ones that are the most kind of immersed in it and they see every nuance and they go, wow, and how you said this and how said that and I don't know, maybe it's because they're more, maybe they can just see it more clearly as opposed to sometimes performing for an audience that maybe they don't have that same outlook.

They're not as maybe not as worldly. I'm not sure what it is. They're the ones that seem to feel like you are attacking their intelligence and therefore yes and therefore they kind of go well I know how you did that. That's done like this. is and most of the times they're wrong to be honest.

Gareth King (36:04)

Yeah, that's a really interesting point there, that they are feeling that, yes, it's a magic trick, but maybe they're seeing it as you tricking them like they're a fool, as opposed to, you know, the sleight of hand or, wow, how did they do that, that's interesting. And I think that that's obviously the people with that focus and that approach to being an audience or an observer is obviously one of the downsides that's much more prevalent through the proliferation of digital access and the internet through the industry.

But everything that you’ve said as well, it sounds like there's so many positives that have seen the craft, the industry itself, and the whole world of magic and illusion grow and expand into new and exciting ways, which is obviously fantastic. That said, what would you say the biggest positive of technology and magic colliding has been?

Cosentino (37:14)

Okay, so from my perspective, there'd be two things. It would be like the other day I had someone in Vegas email me and say, hey, we're looking at doing this particular gig. Can you do A, B and C? I was like, yep, cool. Boom, send them the video straight away, done. Like it's just that quick. And they go, wow, yes, you made a helicopter appear. You did this, you did that. Like the communication is just so quick and it's so like, and they can see what you do straight away. And so things move much more quickly.

Another thing that's really interesting, pitches like when I do international TV pitches local pitches but interstate, we do it like this and so it's kind of I used to have to get on an airplane, fly to Sydney, go into the studio, sit down at the board, you know like it was very you know it was cumbersome, there was a lot involved so little things I just think of other things like little things like that.

You know, the international TV shows have aired in 22 countries. I can talk to all those different countries, Vietnam, Philippines, Indonesia, like this. So, all that work and promotion is like a to me.

Then there's obviously the technological side that works to make magic more magical, is the best way to put it. And the other thing that I love is in my show, we incorporate a lot of AV content and screens. So, what I do now is I have a roving camera. I've been doing this for a long, time, but I have a roving camera with me the whole time. Not like in a concert where, you know, you're seeing the performances from so far away that they're on the screen so you can watch them sing. No, no, no.

What I mean is like, I want to show you a particular apparatus. I say, I bring the camera in, have a look at the trunk, have a look inside. It's completely empty. Yes. Is it solid? Look, I'll show you that it's solid. Great. So, I'm proving to the audience that this is real. I'm about to do this crazy death defying escape. Look at the tank, it's a Perspex tank, it's solid. Look at the glass lid, that's solid. Look at the steel bars, look they're solid.

So, the audience, even though they're sitting there, they really get brought in and you get to prove everything. That to me has enhanced the magic and I've really embraced that because using that kind of technology I don't know it it just makes it more immersive is probably the word I'm looking for. Not just so like I'm sitting there, and that's the show.

Gareth King (39:21)

Yeah, that's quite insightful, that point there around that technology and giving people that close-up look. Like once they can see actually there is, where are the hidden wires or where, I don't know, I don't know the kind of things they're expecting to see. But once they can see that it's not there through getting that close-up view, it almost turns the magic back up rather than you know, letting them peek behind the curtain so to see, okay, how it's done.

That's not something that I'd thought about. So that's very interesting to hear that giving people access through technology can almost baffle and bewilder them even more.

Cosentino (40:09)

And what we also do is before a big escape, I have a pre-filmed content that I explain. This is the escape, these are the locks, these are the handcuffs, these are the chains. And all of that is like a little kind of build up to what I'm about to do. Again, to prove that what I'm doing is real. So, without it, I then traditionally have to do it on stage, bring somebody up and it can kind of slow the pace a little bit.

So, by having it in a video packaged up quite neat and tidy, kind of sets the audience up for now, this thing that's about to happen. And so they're watching the screens, the curtain's shut, and then the video finishes, they now know what's going to happen, they know what challenge is, the curtain flies out and we're ready to go.

So, it's just working out ways to incorporate it, to enhance what we're doing as opposed to taking away.

Gareth King (41:01)

That's, I think a perfect summation there, the kind of workflow. And you said something a couple of minutes ago around, you're able to leverage technology to instantly pitch ideas all over the world and communicate like that, which I would imagine frees up so much more time to focus on developing the entertainment as well.

What's one piece of advice you would give to anybody interested in getting involved and thinking they don't know where to start, they’re intrigued by what they've perhaps seen online and want to learn how they can start performing for themselves. What's one piece of advice that you would give them?

Cosentino (41:42)

Let me see. I would... I could say... I could... Look, I think it's really good to learn magic online because you can visually watch it and you can mimic and that makes the process of learning much easier.

But then there's a point where I think you should try and get a book, and learn from the book because once you understand magic a little bit and the mechanics and how things are supposed to be learning from a book forces you to really analyse what the trick is about, where all the little mistakes can kind of happen. And then you're forced to take what's on the page and go, okay, so I've got this card trick. What do I do with it now? What do I, do I tell a story? Do I talk about my grandfather giving me this deck of cards? Is it, did I learn it from a famous magician? You start thinking, like all of a sudden you got to start thinking.

When you watch it online, just go, cool, okay, so there, and you just end up copying it. And so what you end up with is many of the same people kind of doing the same effect, the same way, with the same personality. And so if you're quite sincere about being a magician, then at some point you're going to want to learn to develop your own kind of style and your own approach.

And you can only do that by almost shutting off what everybody else is doing. That's definitely what I did when I was growing up. I was influenced by lots of people, as I said Gene Kelly, Fred Astaire, all these wonderful people, David Copperfield, Houdini. But then there's a point where you kind of got to shut all that away and try and find your own style.

And now it's just so much harder online because you're just constantly watching how other people do it, how other people do it. And so you kind of just, well, that's the way you do it. And you'll do it well. But if you learn it from a book, you'll then be forced to do it to an audience. Let's say you do it to your parents, and you go, that didn't work. Mum didn't respond. Then all of a sudden you think about it. Why didn't mum respond?

And you start to analyse the effect more. It ends up being a little more challenging and you have to put more time into it. If you really are interested in pursuing the art form. If you just want to learn a trick, I think it's just good to, you know, it's great to do it online or learn from a video. It just depends where you want to go with it or what you want to do.

So, my advice, I guess, is learn your trick online and then at some point learn from books. Like honestly, really learn from books. The trick is only one aspect. The storytelling, the presentation, the showmanship is another, that would be my advice. And I would say if you want to be a great magician, you have to love the process of practice and rehearsal. If you don't, I don't know you can be that good. So, you can't just love, you can't just love the result.

Gareth King (44:04)

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense that like everything, you know you get out of it kind of what you put in. And you said something there too, which is, exactly what I was thinking that developing your own storytelling to build that, as you mentioned earlier, emotional connection, is what really is going to make someone kind of stand out on their own.

But speaking of storytelling, tell us what you've got coming up and then how can people follow what you're up to?

Cosentino (44:45)
Oh yes, I've got a brand new tour. We've called it Tricked. Why? Because it's a bit of a play on, you people always think you're coming out there to try and trick them, and obviously the way my approach is that I'm not really there. I'm not trying to fool you. I'm not trying to prove that I'm so much more intelligent than you are. That's not the idea at all.

It's a brand new tour, new illusions, new escapes, new close-up sleight of hand magic, a lot of technology involved. All this AV content, LED screens so we can do what I was explaining to you earlier, like show things on camera, lots of close-up work, lots of interaction with the audience, very immersive.

And I'm touring, starting to tour all around the country so people can find out by going to my website, cosentino.com.au, so it's cosentino.com.au, or all my socials, which is @thecosentino on all platforms.

Gareth King (45:37)

Awesome. Cosentino, thank you so much for joining us.

Cosentino (45:41)

My pleasure, thank you for having me.