Has the internet ruined The Job Hunt?
It was once a very human-centric process, but for so many of us, the internet has transformed looking for work into an automated, opaque, and intensely competitive digital gauntlet.
In this episode, Edan Haddock - Global Head of Talent and People Experience at Movember - gives us an insight into the transformation of job seeking due to the Internet and technology. We explore the impact of AI on recruitment, the importance of maintaining human connections in virtual interviews, and the need for personalisation in job applications.
We also look at the ethical implications of AI in hiring and the future of recruitment, emphasising the importance of creativity and human-centric approaches in the hiring process.
Gareth King (00:26)
Edan, thanks so much for joining us and welcome to the show.
Edan Haddock (00:29)
Thank you so much Gareth, it's great to be here, particularly on such a beautiful sunny day.
Gareth King (00:34)
Yeah, it's lovely outside today. But before we get into it, can you just tell us a bit about the work that you do and the journey that led you to this point?
Edan Haddock (00:41)
Well the work I do at the moment, I look after global talent for Movember and that's total talent so that is hiring externals but also developing our people internally. And Movember’s just such a huge movement. It's a lot bigger than people realise and a lot more complex. So I recruit in Australia, New Zealand, Canada, United States, United Kingdom, Ireland. So I'm basically 24-7 jetlagged to be honest Gareth. Bouncing around the globe. Yeah.
The exciting thing about a role like mine at Movember is, you know, people think Movember and they think the really creative fundraising that was born out of two lads having, you know, having a beer in the pub, right? And raising funds for a family member that was impacted by cancer. But, you know, there is all of that. It is a fundraising charity and, you know, it's a significant one with global reach, but we actually fund our own research programs, our own clinical research programs.
We have an Institute of Men's Health, the Movember Institute of Men's Health, that you know they do all sorts of things. We're tackling toxic masculinities, we're tackling Indigenous health, we're tackling health literacy in young men. I mean it's there are 70 different programs that we run throughout the world and you know, being able to see the impact of the work that I do, from the talent that I bring in, and seeing how they're really making a difference in men's health on a global scale, is really exciting.
But then on the other hand I'll hire a really creative marketer that'll do a you know kick-ass marketing campaign around our big fundraising times. It's really creative and edgy and out there, and so it's a really interesting space I work in.
Gareth King (02:23)
Yeah. So obviously Movember's come a long way since its early days. How many staff combined around the world does Movember have?
Edan Haddock (02:37)
Yeah, and look, we deliberately operate lean, right? Because the funds that we raise folks like us growing mustaches or, you know, people doing Move for Movember challenges, we want to make sure that that funding is going to the programs, right? So we have to operate lean and we're all very dedicated and busy individuals, but there are 350 of us scattered around the globe. So that's actually huge when you consider, as I said, something that was born, you know 20 years ago by two guys having an idea in a pub. It's just extraordinary.
Gareth King (03:09)
Yeah, absolutely. And I guess, you know, with such a large remit as well, and you being someone that is passionate around innovation in talent and recruitment, what would you say is the most surprising change you've seen in the industry because technology?
Edan Haddock (03:30)
Because of technology specifically. Look are a lot, I mean, we're in the most exciting phase at the moment, which is the AI revolution, right, unsurprisingly. What I think is really surprising around that is as professionals in talent acquisition and talent management, I think people aren't realising how rapidly our roles are changing. And I don't think people are embracing the creativity around that at the moment.
And I've been on that journey as well, but I think that's been, this is the time, this is the exciting time, but I think back, I mean, I was still printing resumes and putting them into a yellow, manila folder when I started in this game, right? And you know, then you had COVID where I, pre-COVID, I never thought that I would be comfortable hiring someone that I've interviewed through a digital platform.
And you know, even back then it was kind of like you would tee up a Skype if someone was overseas and you know, then you'd be like, but we're going to need to fly them over because we need to meet them in person. We can't hire someone we've only met digitally. So, like these changes happen that are environmental changes. But, you know, again, I think the technology advancements that we had to catch up with digitisation during COVID has really, really changed the way we work. And losing that human connection in person means we have to amplify the human connection through digital, likewise with AI.
Gareth King (04:55)
Yeah absolutely. And on that point around dialling up the human connection through digital, we know that everyone kind of was thrown into that digital way of communicating by necessity during COVID and it's stuck around to varying degrees. But what would you say the most significant advantages and even disadvantages that that approach might bring when it comes to matching the right candidate with the right role?
Edan Haddock (05:20)
Yeah, look, I think we give more power to the candidate to be able to engage with us in a way that is right for them. I think back in the formal interview panel days, I mean, that was intimidating. I mean, did you ever enjoy going to a job interview?
Gareth King (05:36)
Oh look, I think I've done a panel one with like three people once and that's not even a lot compared to stories I've heard and read from other people, and I just felt wild, you know, I felt I was being really judged. So, I can imagine that, you know, as that grows at scale and, you know, maybe people are even doing that online with even more people. You also lose those nuances that you obviously get in the room. So you kind of got to judge by the tiny little square that you can see on your screen, which I guess would make it even harder.
Edan Haddock (06:08)
Yeah, and look, we’re being invited into people's homes, rather than inviting them into our environment and our office. And I think there's something really meaningful in that. And I think there's something really powerful in that. Like I'm talking to you now and I absolutely love the aeroplane lamp that you've got in the background. And I love the artwork that I can see on your bookshelf. Because you've got your blur on, can't see what the books are. But I'm curious about that because that's gonna give me a little bit of insight into you and we can form a really great human connection.
And I think when it comes to interviews, being invited into someone's home is the most intimate thing a candidate can do and it shifts that power. It used to be the power of this is our environment and we're inviting you in and you had to show up and you had to in some ways lose your authenticity, because you know I worked in Fin services pre-COVID and it was you know was suits and ties right it was all very rigid and very formal.
But the intimacy of being in someone's home environment immediately helps you relax. It helps me get to know you a little bit more. But I just think there is that beauty in the warmth that comes with that. And you know, we don't think about these things. Like you possibly haven't thought about that. I don't think about that overly, but I know in my mind that it's there.
Gareth King (07:14)
Yeah, no, that's such a good point around the intimacy of getting a peek into someone's environment. You know, I remember I saw something a couple of weeks ago, it just reminded me of it. And it was somebody talking about if they were interviewing a candidate and they saw a rubbish bin or something in the shot, you know, like stuff that you'd have in everybody's house. Like that's a disqualifier. So, it's kind of, I don't know, everyone must have their own little system of judgment.
But that picture you're pointing out behind me is actually my fiancée got me that at Christmas. And it's like this Google map kind of artwork with the pin dropped on where we went on our first date ever. So, it's quite sweet.
Edan Haddock (08:12)
How amazing. And see, this is the conversation, and it's particularly important at Movember, these human conversations is where as I said, the power play doesn't exist anymore. And I can get to know the real you, and that is so important for our culture, right? Like, rather than being so stiff and formal and...
Ironically, we're all putting background filters on now and that's there as well. But still, you're in your environment and you're comfortable and you're safe. I think that safety is what we need to be really mindful of. You're able to be yourself and you're not acting and you're not posing because you're safe.
Gareth King (08:39)
Yeah, that's it that's a good point there around being yourself and relaxed versus say putting on that show that you might feel obliged to if you were called into an in-person interview somewhere, and never mind if there's even more people you kind of almost feel like you've got to transform yourself into that room, rather than then letting yourself shine through. You know, I get it's probably quite an intimidating thing for a lot of people if that's not something that you're used to doing all the time.
That said, we're talking around how easy it is now candidates or roles online, which has obviously bought this gigantic amount of scale and opportunity as well. A lot of the time that we're seeing, whether it's job seekers or even talent people like yourself, there's kind of this frustration around some of these tools that are built for efficiency on everybody's regard and everyone's kind of feeling them out still, like what's the best way to optimise them from either end.
If there's job seekers that are potentially frustrated at this process that we're all learning how best to utilise it, If they're frustrated, do you think it's because they might feel ignored due to the sheer scale of opportunity that technology and the internet provides everybody, so there's obviously such a huge amount of applicants for any role?
Or do you think that some of that could come down to trying to beat that system by this kind of low effort numbers game approach to applications? How will this play out, do you think?
Edan Haddock (10:26)
How it will play out? This is such a big question, Gareth. I'm just trying to work out where to start. Cause you know, we could talk for a couple of hours on this one. Look, ease of application, I suppose is where we start, which leads to volume of applications. And I kind of rebel against that a little bit, to be honest, Gareth.
I hear a lot of commentary in my industry, people saying cover letters are dead. I'm on the other end of the scale. You know, I think the drag and drop and post and there's actually, you know, you may have heard and your audience may have heard, I mean, there are AI tools that you could pass your resume over to and it will do your job applications for you and just overnight while you're sleeping, submit your application to 20 different organisations, 200 different organisations, right? There's that kind of that technology on the candidate side that is becoming more and more prevalent.
I think from my perspective, I want to make a job application an effort, but I want to do it in a fun way. So I, you know, there are things that I have already introduced. Gareth, if you were to apply for a position with Movember, you'll pop in a Spotify link for your favourite song, right? And when I'm looking over your CV, I can play your favourite song. It's all embedded in my system and it's embedded in your application.
You've got optional questions where you can talk about, you know, a travel destination you want to go to, you can talk about your most prized possession, you can talk about your family, your pets, all of that, you know, you've got all of that and you control the question and the answer. It's not a series of questions that I ask you. So, there's that element of play in there. And I think, you know, that kind of experience is going to amplify the human experience once again. And it gives me an environment for you to be able to again be authentic because I can start that conversation by saying hey that was a tune you selected right like love Tina Turner as well like hey did you ever get to see her live you know right like, and then already your guard's down.
Gareth King (12:24)
Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think that of human connection is always the best icebreaker for any, whether it's a job application or just a conversation anywhere, finding that common cause is the best way to do it. And, it feels like there is a general vibe at the moment that that is kind of being lost as everyone figures out how the least amount of work we can put in to try and beat this technology might be.
So it's very, very good to hear, even like your suggestion of the Spotify track or, you know, just to connect like that, which again, will make everything so much more human and easy for everybody.
So that was actually one of my next questions I was going to ask you. One of the misconceptions is that there isn't much of a human touch during this this whether it's, we'll call it the employment pipeline at scale currently. Beyond people thinking that they're just a data point or a number in a system, what would you say the other misconceptions that people might have?
Edan Haddock (13:26)
Yeah, it's interesting because I think there is a big shift going on at the moment. And I think, you know, on reflection, there was a time where I think HR and talent professionals were trying to make the application process as simplified as possible, drag and drop, fire it off, low effort, do it on the train, do it within 30 seconds, done and dusted, because people were trying to get more and more people into the funnel, because particularly in industries like technology where it was almost impossible a few years ago to find software engineers and beyond right?
Like within that techy space i think you know everyone was focused on a talent crunch and they tried to make things as simplified as humanly possible. So what that has then done is a lot of that process and tech and that legacy of that time is still in play and still exists.
But you know, I think trying to beat these systems is not the way to go by firing off as many applications as possible. And I know we'll probably talk about the selection process from someone on my side throughout this conversation. But, it’s not a numbers game. I think from my perspective with Movember, I want to hear your story and I want to hear why you want to come and do good with Movember, right? Why do you want to work for Movember and do good in the world?
And people are sharing their personal connections, whether that's say I lost a close friend to mental illness, or my father is undergoing treatment for prostate cancer, or you know whatever it is right? Like we've all got a connection to men's health in some way regardless of whether we're a man or not. So, I want to hear those stories right I want to hear the why behind the application so you need to be deliberate in your application instead of this spray and pray. Yeah.
Gareth King (15:30)
Would you say that that, I guess that want from someone in your position, is that common? How much of that is born out of maybe the size of the organisation? Like if you were in a gigantic corporate, I can imagine it would be very different than something as worthy as Movember.
Edan Haddock (15:49)
Look I think if you were to layer it up your Chief People Officer to your C-suite, values, purpose, impact, that's what they want. I think when you get deeper, particularly into the large enterprise organisations, when you're talking thousands and thousands of employees, tens of thousands of employees, as you go further down the layer, I think naturally a lot of that connection is lost.
So, would you know, a recruitment team of a hundred, can we hand on heart say that every single one of those hundred people are connected to the organisation strategy, have that really strong focus on values? Potentially, potentially not. Right? Like, you know, there can be a breakdown in that.
But I think at the heart of the industry that I'm in, and I mean, we get into this field because we want to help people. At the end of the day, we want to help people gain meaningful employment. And there's a buzz to that, and when we do place people in employment we celebrate with them, and that's why we do what we do. This ain't an easy job. It's really not.
Gareth King (16:50)
Yeah, look, I do. I hear that a lot, you know, especially at the moment. Like we've said, the sheer scale of everything that is how everything's operating due to the opportunity, whether it's global, you know, you've got people firing things off into countries that they're not even in, just see what happens. And I can imagine that really clogs up the system if it's not utilised efficiently.
But speaking of utilising it efficiently, how do those Applicant Tracking Systems and even other AI tools filter candidates efficiently and effectively to help you right type of person that you're looking for the role?
Edan Haddock (17:36)
Yeah, and this is a bit of a myth buster for you here mate. Yeah, look, they're not ranked from when you apply. Some that do a little bit of that, they'll kind of do a bit of a skills match. There was this trend going on that I didn't quite get into when it came to skills-based hiring. I think it's kind of...it's dying a bit of a slow death to be honest, but it was a big buzz in our industry and I never quite got it. And that was sort of skills matching from your CV to skills within the organisation and matching it that way. There's a lot more to it by the way, but just simplifying it, right?
Gareth King (17:58)
Just on that, would you say that skills based matching, if someone's taking the approach of, say, finding the keywords in the job description and then weaving those into their CV to make themselves the perfect candidate? Is that kind of that approach?
Edan Haddock (18:27)
Doesn't work. Doesn't work. Doesn't work. Now look, and I'll do a pro skills argument, not that I am pro skills hiring. I'm kind of in the middle. It's like if it works for your organisation, it works for your organisation, right? But you know, there needs to be an assessment for that to be the reality, right? Just someone saying that they've got a skill. So what? Right?
So and then there are platforms that do that. You know, there are platforms that specialise in candidate assessment and there are a lot of them, whether it's, you know, even back in the day with psychometrics, right, which still exist, but or there's competency based skills platforms where it will match your skills to roles and it will rank you because it's, you know, it's a test, right? It's got a result. It's got an outcome. It will rank your percentage based on someone else, and then the ATS will have you sitting higher than another candidate. But that's past the application stage.
What I have at application stage in terms of AI is that I've got Copilot just basically summarising your CV into a short and succinct bullet point, bullet point, bullet point, bullet point. So, when I'm looking through CVs, and I get hundreds of them for each role, I'm able to look at a really short, sharp, snappy summary of your experience.
And then for me, I can dive in, I can play your Spotify song, I can learn about what kind of pizza topping you like, I can then, you know, I can read your CV from that point there.
But where the power is for me is I have a free text, call it a cover letter, a free text where people tell me about the why and why they want to come and do this work, regardless of what you're doing at Movember, you are making an impact for men's health.
And for us, all of us at Movember, we want to know because you again, it ain't an easy job. Like we're dealing with heavy topics. We have a lot of fun and we've got a really great culture and we make sure we've got that balance. But you know, you need to have that want to make a difference and a want to change the world.
We work in, I work in five different time zones, right? Like it's long days. And you know, every day I'm dealing with topics like cancer, mental health, you know, suicide, these are heavy things. We talk about that in a really real way and we're very edgy in the way we communicate externally. But, you know, I have to read people's stories around those topics every day. So, I need to be really dedicated to the cause and making that change. Otherwise that would be a really hard environment to work in I feel.
Gareth King (21:14)
Yeah, no, absolutely. And I can imagine that as you touched on a few minutes ago, just that cover letter explaining why you've got that interest in that particular role or that particular organisation. Like, you know, me personally, I'm quite a big believer in the value of a cover letter. I don't know if it's because I'm a bit older or whatever, but I think that when you look at the application process, whatever it is, that's where you've kind of got the space to actually tell a bit of a story without, you know, trying to cram whatever you want into your CV or your, or your resume.
So that's interesting to hear that you've got Copilot kind of summarising it, you know, putting the soundtrack on, and then that's how it's actually presented to you. Cause I think that one of the perceptions out in the market at the moment, is that it's almost this AI versus AI arms race. It's like this huge blockage from either end or everybody's end.
And I remember reading about how you've got people using AI to write their applications to try and beat an AI system, which will use AI to judge this person. And so it's kind of this ecosystem, or the perception of it is, it's just AI tools trying to fight against each other. So it's really nice to hear there is actually a human in there and how these things are being used.
Yeah, but that said, there's a bit of talk at the moment around these kind of ethical implications of AI screening, regarding potential biases that might disadvantage certain groups. Firstly, is this perception real? And if so, how are these mitigated?
Edan Haddock (22:57)
For sure. And I'll give you a live example. I've introduced an AI agent, which is a bit of a mini me. His name is Joel. And he will phone screen you. It's agentic AI and he'll have a conversation with you for 20 to 30 minutes and he will probe and you'll be able to ask him questions. He'll ask you questions and it is pretty amazing technology, right?
Now is that ethical? I say yes. The reason being, and there are number of reasons, and there are a number of reasons why I've introduced this. So, we're talking about the application process earlier and hyper-personalising that and people sharing their connection to the work that we do at Movember.
200, 300 of them come through the funnel. I'm a human being that can probably only speak to, for 20 minutes, eight to 10 of them a day, and then I've got everything else going on. You know, that's not my only job, right? Like I look after talent and people experience. So it's, end to end employee life cycle.
What this does is I can then have everyone and give everyone the opportunity, if you've applied for a role with Movember, to have that opportunity to put your best foot forward and to go beyond the CV and demonstrate your capabilities, your potential, your skills.
Again, I mean, they come into play. You know, skills-based hiring is another scenario, but, you know, being able to demonstrate your experience, your capabilities, your future potential, what you're looking for, your motivations, and to be able to do that in a conversational manner - I think that is ethical, because I think it does remove bias because if I can only select eight to 10 people and I'm not relying on a tool to rank them because I don't do that assessment and I don't do skills-based hiring.
There are going to be biases at play. I mean, human beings, we have biases whether we know it or not. You know, unconscious bias, right? Like, I mean, it could be, you know, someone bullied me at high school and, you know, they've got the same name, right? Like, it can be as simple as that. And even though I'm saying to myself, well forget about it, there's something in the back of my head that is still niggling away even though I don't know it.
Gareth King (24:56)
Yeah, yeah, and I think just on that point around the agentic tools, I have seen a bit of discourse where someone might have said, I had to go to a job interview. And it was an AI kind of interviewing me. And they've taken it as quite an insult that they're not getting to speak to a person.
But I can imagine that, as you said, you're so overwhelmed by not only this one position that might be in question trying to fill with the right person for that and everything else. These tools, of course, have been implemented for a reason. So it's quite interesting to see that there is a real necessity to using those tools to make sure that everyone that wants it can have the same shot.
Edan Haddock (25:51)
Because it becomes fairer in my view. Now we all know that there are instances where AI can be biased as well, and there's the statistics to say AI favours female candidates for example, and they've tested that and you know, that's there and there's a slight favoritism towards female candidates. But I think the key to this is contextualising it like I've got to give the context as to why I am doing this.
That's, A. So people know, I want more people to have an opportunity to, I want you to have a shot at this, right? Like, you know, I want everyone to be able to put their best foot forward. Uh, that's, that's A, but then B it's give people, and this is where the ethics come into it. Everyone's on a different journey with AI. And then we talk diversity, right? We have people neurodiverse that come through that pipeline. You need to give people the opportunity not only to opt out, but also to opt in. It's an opt in, out.
Which would you choose? You know, do you want to talk to me on the phone? Do you want to talk to me on Zoom? Do you want to go through the AI tool. Now, what we're finding as, you know, we've been rolling this out and we've been rolling it out for our volume hire. That's where we've kind of started at that, you know, seasonal staff that come in to support Movember throughout, you know, the campaign. 97 % of people opted into the AI. I don't know whether to get offended by that because I'm a pretty nice guy, but 97 actually chose to speak to Joel over me.
And I think there are a few elements at play with that. I think a lot of it is curiosity because all of this technology that is advancing so much faster than our brains can keep up with, is pretty fascinating for the general public. I know I probably would have chosen the AI tool because I'll be like, oh my God, how does this thing work? Right. So that that may plateau out. Like we may see less and less of that as, people actually experience it more often.
But the feedback has been really positive as well and really surprising that they can actually have a conversation and that they you know can do it in their own time, again can do it in an environment that they feel safe, they can do it on the beach if they want to, so you know you're able to bring your authentic self in an environment that brings out your best self.
Gareth King (28:04)
Yeah, that's such a good point. And I think that contradicts so much of the chatter out there at the moment around what these tools are. If there is that general perception that they are not dehumanising, but kind of cold. And it feels like the actual intention behind them is to make sure that A. everybody has the equal footing and opportunity to kind of sell themselves and get into the role.
But then as you also said, they're giving people different avenues that they might embrace that work the best for them, because as you've alluded to, some people might deal best speaking to a person, others might not like that pressure, they might want to be in their house where they're comfortable. So, it is great to hear that, behind the mystery and so much of the, I guess, the frustration that there is with this kind of tools at the moment, the actual output is to give humans the best shot to be more human.
Edan Haddock (29:13)
We’ve got to open our minds with AI, because I think so much of the misconception is that AI is a productivity tool and it's there to take people's jobs or to do people's jobs better or it's to save time, it's to save money. All of that when we think AI in the workplace, that’s where our mind goes. But it's actually not that. That's not the primary purpose, is going to be a result of using AI, right? You are going to see that, but I don't think that's the intent.
Gareth King (29:42)
I think, yeah, and again on that point, it's almost how you implement it. Because we've all seen loads of people that might be like, I use this tool and it will read my emails. Or just like these low level tasks, which you could draw the connection there that is an efficiency thing. But it's almost replacing part of you as the human. Whereas what you've said is if you use it to kind of of augment what capable of as a human, you can kind of become a superhuman version of yourself we'll say now..
Edan Haddock (30:18)
Yeah, it's like that. What's the film? The substance, right? You know, I've injected it and I've had my little AI guy grow out of my back. A perfect version of me.
Gareth King (30:24)
It is interesting, gonna be interesting how that all shakes out because there's quite a divergence at the moment around, as you said, some people see it as it's here to replace jobs, do the task. And I guess if you can only imagine it being used for that low hanging fruit, that could be a thing. But if you look at it, what kind of opportunities and augmentation processes it might bring, that is an entirely different kettle of fish, as they say.
Edan Haddock (30:59)
It is. And the thing is, right, like if you implement AI without a focus on amplifying human experience on what sits on either side of that AI. So, for me, you know, this this agentic AI and Joel and this interview, phone interview tool, if I hadn't elevated the human experience at the front end of that, when you apply for a role and all of the things that we talk about with Spotify, et cetera, that we've already covered off, right. And then if I don't elevate the human experience of the human-to-human interview, then that fails.
You know you can't just lift and shift a tool like that into an existing historical recruitment process. There has to be a full strategy of where am I going to lift the human skills and where am I going to implement AI and it has to balance. Right?
Gareth King (31:34)
Yeah, yeah, totally. That kind of went on to a question I wanted to ask you, which was, there's a perception that the human touch in recruitment is being lost. But is it a case that it's simply shifting where the human touch occurs in the hiring funnel? And I think that you've alluded to it there, that's kind of addressing one of these misconceptions out there at the moment that you're leaving it all up to robots to kind of manage everything.
What would you say after explaining kind of your process, what would you say in your opinion are some actionable strategies that either candidates or employers can use to cut out a lot of this noise, and increase their chances of finding the right match for the right role?
Edan Haddock (32:37)
Yeah it's... oh gosh there are so many right? Like where do we start? Do we want to start on the candidate side? How to break through the noise? I think personalise everything. If you're a candidate listening and identify the employers that you want to work for, have a really good, and you will never not find the values of an organisation or a purpose without a very quick search, plug it in, you know, there we go, you can plug it into chat GPT-5 and you'll find it.
You I think hyper personalisation, regardless of whether that process is hyper personalised yet, get it in your cover letter and tailor your CV for that role, right? The more personal you are, and let's break down that misconception right now, the firing off 200 applications using a tool that's just going to apply for everything, it's not going to work, and you're more than likely going to get ruled out that way than you are if you spend a couple of minutes personalising your application.
Gareth King (33:27)
And I think just, before we back to say what strategies for the company, like so much of what I've seen and read and heard is someone saying, I fired off 5,000 applications using one of these tools, I don't personalise anything, and I can't get callbacks or any interviews. And then, you know, it becomes this negative feedback loop where you're not getting any response to say 5,000, you may feel it's even worth less effort moving forward. When the solution, try and connect with the person on the other end of these things, as a human and as an, you know, representative of a business or an organisation, that’s where the effort should be.
Edan Haddock (33:59)
And it can be silly, right? Like it doesn't need to be, you know, I believe in cover letters as do you. We've kind of landed on that as a collective, right? But I think, you know, I love a CV where someone whacks on a, you know, picture of themselves wearing a fake mustache and I get them all the time. Right.
And, and, and they'll be really, really crazy and quirky. And it's that sense of humor coming through that I know all this person, they've taken a little bit of effort there and they don't take themselves too seriously. And, they understand that we're, you know, edgy and we're real and that's how we operate. And one of our values is fun and they're having fun and, you know, it can just be little things like that.
Gareth King (34:33)
Yeah, just to totally show that you get the organisation as well. But what say companies people involved in hiring, what strategies could they employ to optimise everything? If they're potentially feeling burnt out by the scale, what tactics could they employ to maybe help themselves sift through that scale?
Edan Haddock (35:09)
Look. We are a bloody conservative industry, mate. Any talent leader, any HR leader out there, we've got to get our people embracing creativity and we have to do it now. Okay, because otherwise, you know, these machines can take over. Right, they can, right? So, you need to be creative in terms of what you're doing or you're going to fall behind.
I think at the moment it’s start small. I actually learned this yesterday. I was in an Amazon workshop on was basically group that we've got at Movember that involved CEO, Chief Marketing Officer, there was about 10 of us in there. It was really that start small and scale fast. That's really stuck with me from yesterday, and something that I've been thinking about a lot today.
I think that's what I've done with things like agentic AI with how I've hyper-personalised the application experience, there's so much more I can do with it. And I need to scale that quickly or I'm going to fall behind. So, I think what we're going to see in the future, if organisations don't catch up to this and start doing that and start being more creative and thinking differently of what that experience can look like for applications, they're going to lose because we will get another talent crunch, and you'll find that talent and good talent will be going to the organisations that are doing that really well.
And I'm hoping Movember will be continuing to be one of those, right? If you don't catch up now, if you're still using these outdated technologies, these outdated systems, if you're still ghosting candidates, if you're still just treating this as a numbers game, you're going to lose because this is advancing way too quickly. If you're not lifting and elevating the human side of what we do in recruitment and selection, even 12 months from now things are going to look very differently.
Gareth King (37:05)
That's a great segue into my next question, which was going to be looking forward, what might the candidate search or the job search of the future potentially look like in your opinion?
Edan Haddock (37:16)
I think it's going to be very deep, consultative. I think that connection is going to be even stronger. I think roles like mine are going to become more of a career and life coach, in all honesty.
I think we will get to the point the true value and where what's keeping me up at night, and I'll tell you what's keeping me up at night is that, you know, people are sharing those really powerful stories with me. They're putting effort into their applications. I'm inviting more and more people into the funnel to experience Movember and to put their best foot forward. And then what? Right. It's the and then what?
So really, if I had the time, if I can automate as much as I can in that front end and spend as much time as I can in the and then what?, I think that's where the power is going to because I think that expectation is going to become greater and greater. It's not just a quick short sharp feedback, sorry you've been unsuccessful, whatever reasons even, and a lot of people don't even give a lot of those reasons, in fact the vast majority of applications that come through will get a thanks but no thanks in a much nicer way obviously.
But you know so where does that put us right? If we're doing all of that at the front end, through the process, if we're relying on automation, people are putting all of that effort in, what does that feedback loop look like?
We all know we can't ghost and people still do that and I don't understand why, because it's not the reason we got into this industry. So, people that are in those roles that are ghosting, it makes no sense to me because that would keep me up at night.
Gareth King (38:40)
Would you say that that's simply born out of scale again? You know, how could you give unique and constructive feedback to say 750 applicants or something in each role?
Edan Haddock (39:05)
I know, you're right, you're absolutely right. You know, talent functions have been under resourced always, right? it's do more with less. It always has been.
You know, we saw post COVID all the redundancies that happened in our space. Everyone said, oh well, we're not going to hire for a little while because we were going through, you know, economic recovery, and we're just going to keep our organisations flat. So we'll just boot the talent team. They're not going to be recruiting. And then of course, you know, 12 months later, they had to build another recruitment team.
So, you know, I think it's that. long days, it's long hours. The traditional way of recruiting and going through CV by CV by CV is exhausting. You become tired. You know, consultants become lazy for that. And our technology just wasn't where it needed to be in order to personalise feedback. And yes, it is, it is scale, it is volume, but it's got to shift and it's going to shift because the expectations, as I said, if we're expecting applicants to do more and to share more and for us to form that connection everything we're talking about from your aeroplane lamp in the background earlier, right?
Like if you're inviting me into your home the least I can do is give you something that you can go away and learn from through that process and an experience that you'll be able to reflect on and go, you know what? Edan was an absolute legend. I'm gonna grow a mustache this year, because that cause and everything that I learned through that process, they're doing bloody amazing work and I need to be a part of it because I wanna change mens health as well, right?
Gareth King (40:18)
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that so much of what you said around utilising less human things to allow for more human interaction at different stages of the process, and even your point around just getting a bit more creative about how people screen candidates and things, which again, lets that humanity shine through. It sounds like there is still quite a lot of emphasis on the human side behind everything, which is lovely.
Thanks so much for all that Edan. What's on the horizon for you and where can people follow what you're up to?
Edan Haddock (41:14)
Yeah, for sure. Well, always follow me on LinkedIn. Look, Horizon for me, like the creative, right? Like, you know, I have redesigned our employer brand and really, you know, and a lot of that is around the process of the application and really inviting people to come and do good with us. So, I'll be doing a lot of work around that and a lot of creative which is exciting. So, follow the Movember page and we're coming into campaigns. So, you know, you'll be seeing a lot of content coming from Movember and it's time to start planning your moustache or your Move for Movember challenge.
I have launched a podcast, so Edan Haddock - Total Talent, have a search for that on Spotify or Apple. And that's really just sort of me sharing what's going on in my world. And people can learn more about what's happening in the, in the talent space. It's me blathering on for 20 minutes each episode, really about what's happening. And I'm using AI to summarise it. So there you go. It's helping me. It's helping me script it.
But yeah, i'm always open to hearing what's going on and as candidates like share more of what's going on, you know? We want to know, and we want to learn, and I think if you go through a recruitment process and you enjoy components of it, share it with the recruiter. If there are things that need improved, share it, right? I survey everyone.
Everyone, you know, I've got since I launched this in March, I've got 1300 different responses from candidates and you know. Yeah, right. But look, you know, some of it's improvement, right? Some of it was like, you know, the colour wasn't accessible. I'm vision impaired and I went shivers, I need to fix that straight away. I didn't even realise, right? Like you learn, you learn along the way. Yeah.
Gareth King (42:46)
Awesome. Edan, thank you so much for joining us.
Edan Haddock (42:54)
Thanks, mate, it was great.
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