Has the internet ruined Dating & Relationships? - Elly Klein

1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:01,600
Welcome to ruined by the
Internet.

2
00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:04,080
I'm Gareth King.
Today we're asking, has the

3
00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:07,120
Internet ruined dating?
It promised us unprecedented

4
00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:10,080
connection, but for many people,
the Internet instead damaged the

5
00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:13,160
quality and authenticity of
dating by offering endless

6
00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:16,600
choice, a shopping mentality,
and reduced emphasis on genuine,

7
00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,280
in person connection.
To help us get to the heart of

8
00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:22,040
things, we're joined by Ellie
Klein, a professional dating

9
00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,040
mentor, author, and founder of
Your Dating Bestie.

10
00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:32,560
Ellie, thank you so much for
joining us and welcome to the

11
00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:33,840
show.
Thanks, Gareth.

12
00:00:34,160 --> 00:00:37,040
Before we begin, can you tell us
a bit about the work that you do

13
00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:38,800
and your journey that led you to
this point?

14
00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:42,360
I can.
OK, well I call myself a

15
00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,400
professional dating mentor.
I mean the more common term is

16
00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:48,200
dating coach, but I just don't
like the word coach.

17
00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:50,160
I kind of see myself more as a
mentor.

18
00:00:50,160 --> 00:00:54,600
So I have a business where I
help women who want to find the

19
00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:59,040
Mr. Right go from dating sucks
to dating success and my

20
00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,080
business is called your dating
bestie 'cause I I take a unique

21
00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:05,600
best friend approach to this.
Yeah, interesting.

22
00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,040
You know, dating sucks to to
success.

23
00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:10,960
It seems like that's a very
prevalent need right now.

24
00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:14,920
General vibe out there is is
that you know, things aren't as

25
00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,280
good as they could be and
hopefully we can get to the

26
00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:20,240
bottom of that today.
But you've been evolved in the

27
00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,480
world of dating and coaching in
various ways for a while now.

28
00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,840
Have you been surprised by just
how huge online dating has

29
00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:28,520
become over that time?
Yeah.

30
00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:32,720
I mean, it's, it's funny.
I was sort of around from the

31
00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:37,040
start because I, you know, I
went to high school in the 90s

32
00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:41,240
and, you know, I was dating in
the late 90s and early 2000s and

33
00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:44,480
I didn't start doing online
dating until I was 27.

34
00:01:45,320 --> 00:01:48,800
That was in 2005.
And that was back in the day

35
00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:50,440
where there were, it was no
apps.

36
00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,920
It was, it was dating websites.
And people were still saying on

37
00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:56,400
their dating profiles, like, I
can't believe I'm doing this.

38
00:01:56,400 --> 00:02:00,080
So, you know, it was, it was
sort of still a little bit

39
00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,720
taboo.
And now it's probably gone so

40
00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:07,040
far in the opposite direction
that it's almost like people

41
00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,320
have gone back to meeting
offline.

42
00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,240
Yeah.
And I think that's, it's quite

43
00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:14,200
an interesting point you've just
raised there around the kind of

44
00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:16,640
taboo or, you know, this, the
stigma of it.

45
00:02:16,640 --> 00:02:20,520
You know, I can remember maybe
even just over 10 years ago now,

46
00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:25,680
it still felt like it wasn't as
something that people were just

47
00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:28,160
so cavalier about.
It seemed to be a little bit

48
00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:31,160
clandestine.
And there was almost this little

49
00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:33,840
bit of embarrassment around that
that was what you were doing

50
00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,640
because it felt like people were
still seeing the kind of more

51
00:02:36,640 --> 00:02:39,000
traditional methods as a, as a
good option.

52
00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,520
So we've obviously seen since
that time that, that it's almost

53
00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:46,240
the online and whether it's apps
or, or websites has kind of

54
00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:50,240
become the first port of call.
And it's almost changed the way

55
00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:53,160
that people are interacting by,
you know, there's almost that

56
00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,240
hesitation to try and do it the,
the classic or the traditional

57
00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:58,880
way.
Whether that's, you know, fear

58
00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:02,640
of of rejection or just
awkwardness about approaching

59
00:03:02,640 --> 00:03:06,720
people, whether that's kind of
affected by how technology's

60
00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,040
infiltrated our whole life since
then, who knows?

61
00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:13,360
Leaving that the obvious
convenience aside, what else

62
00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,240
would you say the most profound
changes that the Internet and

63
00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,040
technology has introduced to how
people date today?

64
00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:22,960
The first thing is that it's
just given you access to so many

65
00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,520
more potential partners.
Up until online dating, you are

66
00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:31,080
really only limited to your
school, work, family, friends

67
00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,960
who you might meet out of an
evening at a bar or a nightclub

68
00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:38,320
and then travel, a little bit of
travel and then maybe some

69
00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:41,600
common interests if you play a
sport or something like that.

70
00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:47,360
And that was it.
And now you can go online and

71
00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:52,360
sort of look for men or women
within, you know, 10 to 20 years

72
00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:56,200
of your age within 100 kilometre
radius or whatever.

73
00:03:56,200 --> 00:04:00,520
And you can connect with them.
And so it's given a

74
00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:06,000
significantly more access.
The other thing is that you now

75
00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,320
know a lot more about someone
before you go out with them.

76
00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,120
So especially when you would see
meet someone at a party or at a

77
00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,360
bar or something, all you would
know is that you find them

78
00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:18,440
physically attractive.
You, you, you don't even know if

79
00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,800
they're single.
And so you don't know how old

80
00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:22,840
they are.
You don't know where they live,

81
00:04:22,840 --> 00:04:26,040
you don't know what they do.
You, you now you know a lot

82
00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,000
about them before you sit down
and, and have a date.

83
00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:32,640
And so I think there are
advantages and disadvantages to

84
00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:36,320
meeting both offline and online.
Yeah.

85
00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,240
It's so true that like
everything that I guess

86
00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:43,520
technology and the digital world
has kind of brought us, one of

87
00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:47,200
the problems that it also brings
along with the benefits is that

88
00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:48,880
scale.
As you said, you're you're

89
00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:52,200
supposed to so many more people
in so many more options and

90
00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:56,400
whether it just kind of becomes
this draining numbers game,

91
00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:00,080
which feels like a lot of people
are having that as as the big

92
00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,880
issue.
Like it's so hard to find one

93
00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:07,160
great date or one right person
in amongst the gigantic amount

94
00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,360
of people that are out there
that you've almost got a philtre

95
00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:11,280
through.
But I guess that's one of the

96
00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,600
pitfalls of online dating and
you mentioned there around you

97
00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:18,920
kind of get to know a lot more
about someone as we all know

98
00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,880
when they're online, you know,
people can be anything that they

99
00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:24,120
want to be.
And so I'm sure that that still

100
00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:26,640
can be a problem.
You know, we've all heard the

101
00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,080
term catfishing and and things
like that.

102
00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:33,640
Beyond running into someone
that's not as they seem based on

103
00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,880
your experience, what are some
of the other pitfalls people

104
00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,640
fall into when they're trying to
navigate dating and

105
00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:41,200
relationships in the digital
age?

106
00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,200
Well, there are a lot of
potential pitfalls.

107
00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:49,280
Let's hear them.
It's funny that despite, you

108
00:05:49,280 --> 00:05:52,920
know, you can now say a good 10
to 20 years of online dating has

109
00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:57,640
gone by, people still don't
really know how to use online

110
00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:02,040
dating that well.
And their expectations are often

111
00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:04,920
unrealistic.
And so they get because they

112
00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:06,840
don't really know what they're
doing, because no one's ever

113
00:06:06,840 --> 00:06:10,280
taught them, they sort of dive
in.

114
00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:11,880
They don't really know what
they're doing.

115
00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,400
They don't have any support.
They get frustrated with it

116
00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:20,080
quickly and they give up.
And it's, it's something, I

117
00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:22,640
mean, that's how I got into this
work.

118
00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:24,760
I probably should have given a
little bit more background

119
00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:29,400
because I, I did, I mean, this
is going to sound crazy, but I

120
00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:33,720
did 11 years.
So I did over a decade of online

121
00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:38,200
dating in three countries, so in
Australia, Canada and the US

122
00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:42,240
before I finally met my husband
online.

123
00:06:43,280 --> 00:06:46,080
I was 38 and I got married at
42.

124
00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:51,720
And I think that I would have
met someone a lot earlier had I

125
00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:55,200
have known what I was doing.
I just, I was, I just learned

126
00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:58,280
through trial and error.
And I actually did end up

127
00:06:58,280 --> 00:07:00,240
working with a dating coach
myself.

128
00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,000
And that certainly helped.
And there were other things that

129
00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,960
contributed, but I ended up like
in that final year, I ended up

130
00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:11,200
making a few changes to my
approach to online dating

131
00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:13,160
because I'm like, I'm doing
something wrong.

132
00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,920
Like I've been doing this for a
decade and it's not working.

133
00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:17,880
I'm doing something wrong.
I need to make some changes.

134
00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:22,400
So I made a few little changes
to my approach and it worked.

135
00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:26,040
And within six months of making
those changes, I met my husband,

136
00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,320
David.
So I think the first pitfall is

137
00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,000
not knowing what you're doing
and getting frustrated with it

138
00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,680
very quickly and giving up.
And it makes me really sad when

139
00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:38,000
people give up because I just
think, oh, if you just changed

140
00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,960
this and did that or whatever,
then, you know, if you just

141
00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,480
understood this about online
dating, then you wouldn't be so

142
00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:45,720
frustrated and you'd keep going
and you'd find someone.

143
00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,720
Yeah, that's.
Only the most common pitfall.

144
00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:51,960
Yeah.
So it sounds like obviously your

145
00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:54,600
your story was really one of
perseverance there.

146
00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,200
And if that's a lesson that you
could you could pass on to

147
00:07:57,200 --> 00:07:59,240
anyone, it sounds, sounds like
it.

148
00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:03,640
And I think that that kind of,
let's call it impatience that

149
00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:06,560
might be causing people to give
up too soon.

150
00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:10,080
You know, there's no doubt in my
mind that that's born out of

151
00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:13,240
this instant gratification
culture that we've kind of found

152
00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,280
ourselves right amongst thanks
to technology.

153
00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:20,040
But one thing that comes up
again and again around, you

154
00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:23,400
know, the world of online dating
is probably tied into that is

155
00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:26,360
this notion of kind of shopping
culture.

156
00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,520
So, you know, we all know how
these things work.

157
00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:31,160
And it's kind of swipe, swipe,
swipe.

158
00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,080
You know, I've seen videos of,
of someone building little

159
00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:38,159
robots or hacks for these kind
of apps, things that will swipe

160
00:08:38,159 --> 00:08:42,039
like 50,000 profiles in an hour.
I don't know, you know, how

161
00:08:42,039 --> 00:08:43,840
they're doing it.
And, and it's kind of trying to

162
00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,560
beat that numbers game as it's
kind of proliferated.

163
00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:51,680
But if people are kind of
approaching it as shopping and

164
00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:54,280
you know, like we know when you
go shopping, you've got complete

165
00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:57,640
control over what's on the shelf
and what you take, whereas a

166
00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:01,040
human, you obviously don't have
that control over there.

167
00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,520
So has to like you back.
Yeah, so, so how?

168
00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:10,480
How, how is this mentality
affecting people's experiences?

169
00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,760
Or I mean, is it, are you seeing
it in I guess what you do and

170
00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:15,720
and how you help people?
Yeah, there's that.

171
00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,640
There's always the argument
like, is it a numbers game?

172
00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:23,000
And well, technically it is a
numbers game, but the question

173
00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,560
is what are the numbers and how
do you play the game?

174
00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:31,160
And so the way I see it is it's
like a funnel, like a sales

175
00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:33,000
funnel, but we'll call it a
dating funnel.

176
00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:37,960
You need, you need a lot of
volume at the top of the funnel

177
00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,800
because most people are not
going to make it out the bottom

178
00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:44,720
of the funnel.
And what I mean by this is let's

179
00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:50,520
say you look at 100 dating
profiles you might like or as a

180
00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:52,240
woman, I think men like more of
them.

181
00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,040
But let's say from a woman's
perspective, she might look at

182
00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:58,560
100 dating profiles.
She'll swipe right on 20.

183
00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:02,320
She'll end up having messages
with about 10 of those guys.

184
00:10:02,560 --> 00:10:05,400
She might speak to them to five
of them on the phone.

185
00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:11,240
She, she might get asked out by
three of them and end up going

186
00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:15,880
on a date with maybe 2 of them
and then hopefully like second,

187
00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:19,280
third or whatever date with one
of them and that that one ends

188
00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:21,840
up being her boyfriend.
And then if that doesn't work

189
00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,280
out, you kind of go through the
whole process again.

190
00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,840
It's funny.
The irony is that people are

191
00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:29,960
really picky at the top of the
funnel and they're like, oh, you

192
00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:33,160
know, he's too old or he's too
this or he's not enough that or

193
00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:35,880
whatever, whatever.
And I just like, I'm like, keep

194
00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:37,600
it.
Try to keep it as broad as you

195
00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,320
possibly can at the top of the
funnel because most of those

196
00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:43,080
guys won't even make it through.
They won't message you or

197
00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,120
they'll send a board message, or
they won't reply to your message

198
00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,040
or you'll, you know that they
won't call when they said they

199
00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:52,440
would or they don't ask you out
or what, you know, whatever.

200
00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,480
So most of those guys at the top
of the funnel are going to drop

201
00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,560
away anyway.
So you can get pickier and

202
00:10:58,560 --> 00:11:02,200
pickier as you go along.
I mean, obviously the further

203
00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:04,880
down the funnel you go, like
when you're actually thinking of

204
00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:08,960
getting into a relationship with
someone, you can be very picky.

205
00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:13,160
Obviously you want to be happy,
but at the top of the funnel,

206
00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,680
that's the irony that we deal
with that everyone's very picky

207
00:11:17,680 --> 00:11:19,880
at the top of the funnel because
they're already sort of

208
00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:23,760
shopping, as you said, for their
ideal person.

209
00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:26,720
But because that person has to
like you back and because it you

210
00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,280
haven't really interacted with
this person or got to know them

211
00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:33,280
or see how you converse and
laugh and get along or whatever.

212
00:11:33,560 --> 00:11:36,080
You need to be more open minded
at the beginning.

213
00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:38,640
And then you can go and get
pickier as you go along because

214
00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:42,120
the guys who you found the most
attractive or had the funniest

215
00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:44,200
or best profiles, they can drop
away.

216
00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,640
And the guys who maybe were, you
know, not amazing initially,

217
00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:52,000
they can become more amazing as
you get to know them because

218
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:54,800
they're so lovely and they keep
their promises and they take you

219
00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:58,280
on great date.
So that's kind of the numbers

220
00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:02,480
game as I would see it.
Yeah.

221
00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,200
Look, even that from that
breakdown there, you know you're

222
00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,800
looking at a what a kind of a 1%
conversion rate?

223
00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,480
That's the same as gales.
Yeah, to kind of hit someone

224
00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:14,840
that you might actually go on a
second date with.

225
00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:20,000
So it's so easy to see how it
could be almost demoralising

226
00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:24,120
after a certain amount of time,
especially if you, as you said,

227
00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,160
you know, potentially open up
the pool and be less picky at

228
00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:28,400
the top of the funnel.
Well, you could.

229
00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,200
Look at it, I mean, think of it
like this.

230
00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:35,280
If you walk into a a bar or a
nightclub, there is probably

231
00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:38,280
only one or two for women
anyway.

232
00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,400
There's probably is only one or
two guys in that nightclub that

233
00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:44,880
they would walk out with who who
also wants to walk out with

234
00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:47,640
them.
Of the guys in the club that you

235
00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:49,960
would walk out with, who would
walk out with you?

236
00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:54,960
There probably is only one or
two in that room, but there are

237
00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,440
hundreds of rooms in your city,
right?

238
00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:01,240
So, so that's the thing, like
it's hard to get your head

239
00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:04,000
around, but it's like anything.
If you're wondering why,

240
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,720
especially with women, if you're
wondering why you're swiping

241
00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,680
past so many men you're not
interested in, they're all the

242
00:13:09,680 --> 00:13:12,200
men that you walk past in the
street or you wouldn't look

243
00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,960
twice at the bar.
They're the same guys.

244
00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,160
They're it's the same
demographic.

245
00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,640
It's just online.
That's that's such a good point

246
00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,800
and I actually thought about it
like that, that they are just

247
00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:27,320
the kind of bodies in the room.
I can imagine it feels like so

248
00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:31,640
many more, you know, non matches
because you are seeing the one

249
00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:36,600
by one as opposed to just a sea
of random faces in one room.

250
00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:40,400
All of that said, we know people
are kind of shopping.

251
00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:42,840
You know, they might, they might
be a little bit pickier as they

252
00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:46,280
go further down through the
funnel, hopefully getting to

253
00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:48,280
that 1% at the end.
Yep.

254
00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:53,480
When people are trying to curate
the most perfect online dating

255
00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:56,600
profile that they have, you know
that that's their main weapon at

256
00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,480
the top of the funnel there.
Yeah, ha.

257
00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:03,120
In your experience, has people
knowing that they've got just a

258
00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:07,080
few photos and a short bio to
make an impression, Does that

259
00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:10,640
result in them portraying what
they think the idealised version

260
00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:14,080
of themselves should be, even if
it's not entirely real?

261
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:19,040
And then does that lead to if
they hypothetically match and

262
00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,120
meet up, does that increase the
chances of leading to

263
00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:25,560
dissatisfaction at how fake you
know digital dating is?

264
00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:29,080
Yeah, it's funny.
It can go either way.

265
00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:33,760
So on the one hand, someone can
choose like the best pictures of

266
00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,280
themselves, if they might even
choose, if they're a little bit

267
00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:38,360
older, they might choose
pictures of themselves when they

268
00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:42,040
were 10 years younger, which can
be very misleading.

269
00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:47,120
They can kind of exaggerate
their the amount that they

270
00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:52,000
exercise or their career
achievements.

271
00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:56,080
And also people can be very
sneaky and not admit that

272
00:14:56,080 --> 00:15:00,120
they're a smoker.
I I turned up to more than one

273
00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:04,400
date where I walk into the bar
and the guy who has non smoker

274
00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:07,240
on his dating profile is smoking
and I'm like oh gosh.

275
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,040
Oh, really?
Yeah, that that that happened to

276
00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:13,600
me a couple of times.
And so that that can happen.

277
00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:18,040
But I actually think what is
more common is that people

278
00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,080
undersell themselves because
they don't know how to sell

279
00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:24,680
themselves.
And so they choose not great

280
00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,760
photos of themselves and they're
actually more attractive than

281
00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,440
that photo.
They also don't know what to say

282
00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:32,880
about themselves.
And so when they they say very

283
00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:36,720
generic things like I, I enjoy
watching movies, eating out,

284
00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:39,040
travel and going to the beach.
And it's like, well, so does

285
00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:40,840
every other human being on the
planet.

286
00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:44,800
And so you know nothing more
about that person after having

287
00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,480
learned that they like to eat
out, watch movies, travel and go

288
00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:49,560
to the beach.
It's like, what movies do you

289
00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:51,680
like to watch?
Where do you like to eat out?

290
00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:53,880
Where have you travelled or
where do you want to travel?

291
00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:55,880
You know, what do you do at the
beach?

292
00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:57,240
Do you surf?
Do you sunbag?

293
00:15:57,240 --> 00:15:58,360
Do you hang out with your
friends?

294
00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,480
Do you, you know, like, I don't
know any more about you.

295
00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:07,480
And I think people, and it's
funny because there are highly

296
00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:10,480
educated people, you know,
doctors, lawyers, business

297
00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:14,760
people who have no idea how to
market themselves on a dating

298
00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:16,480
profile.
And that's how I kind of got

299
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:18,920
into this whole thing because
I'm a copywriter.

300
00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:20,600
I have an advertising
background.

301
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,360
I see online dating profiles as
an ad.

302
00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:27,280
And I often see people don't
market themselves very well.

303
00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,920
And we've gone from dating sites
to dating apps and it's, you

304
00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:32,640
know, pictures and a few
prompts.

305
00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:36,960
As a writer, it makes me really
sad because we used to love a

306
00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,760
good dating profile.
Like, I liked writing them.

307
00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:43,120
I liked reading them.
And I still write them for my

308
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:44,800
clients.
And they are are able to use

309
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,440
them depending on what site or
app they're using.

310
00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:52,400
But profiles have now been
reduced to answering various

311
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,280
prompts.
You can still choose good

312
00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:59,680
prompts and respond to them in a
clever, interesting way so that

313
00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:03,080
you stand out and get your
personality across a little bit

314
00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:07,280
better than just saying very
boring and generic things about

315
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:09,319
yourself.
People are actually often more

316
00:17:09,319 --> 00:17:12,440
interesting than their profile.
Yeah, I mean, there's two,

317
00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,280
there's two things I wanna, I
wanna touch on out of everything

318
00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:16,800
you said over the last few
minutes.

319
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:21,680
The first one being that generic
kind of approach, you know, like

320
00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,440
I like food.
I like sun, you know what I

321
00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:25,800
mean?
I like breeding air.

322
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:27,760
Yeah.
You know, it's like obviously we

323
00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,360
all do.
And I wonder, you know, if there

324
00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:33,840
is some kind of, you know,
reasoning behind that because it

325
00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:35,640
is a very easy match with
everyone.

326
00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:40,280
Whereas if you were to say, you
know, you do you like, I don't

327
00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:44,320
know, walking on hot coals or
something, you might find two

328
00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:46,800
people in the world, you know,
and maybe it makes it a lot

329
00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:48,720
harder.
So maybe that I like the beach

330
00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:52,200
or I like to have a have a drink
or whatever it is, you know,

331
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:56,240
that's almost like lowest
hanging fruit that could lead to

332
00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,440
a potential common interest.
And then, you know, as you said,

333
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,480
it's getting to know someone
beyond that is where the real

334
00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:05,840
interesting stuff happens.
Just on that point as well.

335
00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:08,240
There's something interesting
you said there too around people

336
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:10,680
just don't know how to kind of
market themselves.

337
00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,880
And I think we all know that,
yeah, we've all been in a

338
00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:17,640
situation where you've got to
try and write a biography or, or

339
00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,200
something about yourself, you
know, like maybe you started a

340
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,440
new job or something and, and
you've got to write a bit of

341
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:24,600
detail.
And it feels like the most

342
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:29,440
cringe thing ever.
And so asking other people what

343
00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,720
what they actually see in you
and the good things about you is

344
00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:37,040
probably a get you a lot more
truthful answers of what your

345
00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:41,200
strong points are and and B, you
know, alleviates that feeling of

346
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,120
cringe.
So I can totally see how that

347
00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:46,520
that is part of a service that
someone like yourself might

348
00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:48,760
offer people.
But there was something that you

349
00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:52,560
said even before that, which is
around you can kind of vet

350
00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:58,480
people a lot more, yes.
And so in my mind that, you

351
00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:01,960
know, while, while it feels
somewhat demoralising and

352
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,960
overwhelming, this kind of world
of online dating where there

353
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:09,720
seems to be this endless range
of people that you may or may

354
00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:15,000
not think are right for you.
But it surely it also presents,

355
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,680
as you said, the ability to, to
not only vet people, but it does

356
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,160
add some safety aspect as well,
right?

357
00:19:21,360 --> 00:19:23,640
You know, let's let's rewind
and, and go back to that

358
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:27,120
situation in the bar where you
might see two people in there

359
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,800
that catch your eye.
So if you were leaving the bar

360
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,080
with one of them, you have
really no idea what you're

361
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,120
you're getting into.
You just kind of hope for the

362
00:19:36,120 --> 00:19:39,280
best.
And you know, whereas if you

363
00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:43,560
kind of doing it the digital way
and everybody knows like people

364
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,840
do the, you know, the proverbial
stalking of people and, and

365
00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:49,720
stuff like that, whether it's
their kind of Instagram or, or

366
00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:51,720
other things they can find about
them online.

367
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:57,200
Does that kind of allow people
to see more potential red flags

368
00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,000
before you even get to that
first date?

369
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,440
And is that almost another
philtre that is beneficial for

370
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,640
users in this context?
Yeah, look, I think that that's

371
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,800
something I really like about
online dating.

372
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:13,640
Like I, I like that I know more
about him than I find him

373
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,560
attractive.
Like I know that I I like that.

374
00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:18,160
I know.
I mean, assuming that they're

375
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,960
being honest, most people are
being honest or reasonably

376
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:22,760
honest.
Yeah.

377
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:24,520
Yeah.
And so I kind of like that I

378
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:29,320
know how old he is, where he
lives, what he does, how he

379
00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:33,880
expresses himself in writing,
what his religious and political

380
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:39,160
beliefs are, whether he likes
dogs, whether he's got kids, you

381
00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:41,040
know, like, if he's been married
before.

382
00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:45,840
Like I, I, I think that I I find
that really helpful.

383
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:47,680
Yeah.
No, totally.

384
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,280
And I can imagine that, as you
said earlier with the, the kind

385
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:55,840
of funnel example, that that's
just more tools in the kit to

386
00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,480
philtre out what I guess what
you're not looking for.

387
00:20:59,960 --> 00:21:04,200
But on the topic of, of
philtres, A contentious issue

388
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:08,920
that that I've seen people
talking about is very specific

389
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:12,600
Philtres within these, these
dating apps, You know, for

390
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,800
example, one that I've seen
talked about a lot is the tight

391
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:19,960
setting, you know, and, and I'm
not sure what the average height

392
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,680
of a guy is, is like 5-9 or
something.

393
00:21:23,120 --> 00:21:24,920
Oh, tell me Well.
I can tell you, and I'm sure

394
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:26,960
it's probably the same in
Australia, but I believe the

395
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:32,960
statistic in the US is only 14%
of men are 6 feet or taller.

396
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,240
Really. 14 that sounds really
low to me.

397
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:37,600
That's so.
I mean, I guess, I guess.

398
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:39,600
That sounds about right to me.
Really.

399
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:41,040
Yeah.
Because you'd probably say, you

400
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:43,560
know, average man's height would
be 510.

401
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,480
OK, so that sounds about right
to me.

402
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:49,920
But, yeah, 14% apparently is
what I last heard.

403
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:52,040
OK.
For the US, Yeah.

404
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:53,640
Look, height's one of those
things.

405
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,880
I must admit, personally, I
don't get it.

406
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,560
I've never had a height fetish.
I'm.

407
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:05,000
I'm 54, I, I don't, I've dated
guys who are 5 five and you

408
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:09,960
know, up to 65.
But I, my husband's like every,

409
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,520
he's taller than me, but he's
like average height and I, I

410
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:14,960
don't really get the height
thing.

411
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,840
But yes, I do know a lot of
women love height and even short

412
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,240
women, which I, I think is a bit
cheeky.

413
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,720
It's like, can you save the tall
men for the tall women, please?

414
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:28,600
It's a bit naughty, but look,
everybody's got their

415
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:33,720
preferences, but you just need
to be aware that the more

416
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:38,160
preferences you have, the fewer
people you have to choose from.

417
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:42,480
And you've got to ask yourself,
are these preferences really a

418
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:44,520
deal breaker or are they just a
preference?

419
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:48,200
Yeah.
And that's, that's a great point

420
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,680
there around the more
preferences that you have,

421
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,400
you're obviously narrowing that
pool so much further.

422
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:58,440
You know, I've seen, I think
stuff online of people lamenting

423
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,120
the fact that they can't find
their ideal person.

424
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,840
And then I take a list of, let's
say 10, you know, pretty

425
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:10,040
serious, like rare criteria.
And which is just not surprising

426
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,920
that you can't find this person.
And I've, I've seen people take

427
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:15,840
those criteria.
Like, let's say it's, I don't

428
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,720
know, someone in New York
looking to someone and they've

429
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:20,400
got this criteria.
You know, they're in this

430
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:24,680
gigantic city full of people,
but this criteria, when

431
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,640
someone's run the numbers on it,
it there's maybe like two of

432
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:29,960
those people in the entirety of
New York.

433
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:34,280
And as you said before, one of
them or two of them, the, the

434
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:35,800
feeling needs to be
reciprocated.

435
00:23:36,120 --> 00:23:39,480
And so it, it's almost like you
said they're setting themselves

436
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:46,600
up for failure by aiming so high
that you may not see things, you

437
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:50,880
may not realise that, you know,
things that appeal to you.

438
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:55,440
Obviously that would lead to to
so much dissatisfaction, burnout

439
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,800
and feelings of negativity
around it.

440
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,080
But I guess the flip side of it
is you kind of know what you

441
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:02,840
want.
And if, if someone's like, Yep,

442
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,200
that's what I want, it's like, I
mean, more power to them.

443
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:07,960
They're probably making it more
difficult to themselves.

444
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:09,880
But you know, if that's what
they want to do, that's what

445
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,000
they want to do.
But with all these ability to

446
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:16,160
philtre things and presumably
the more specific you can get is

447
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:20,040
to kind of cut through so many
numbers and and be as efficient

448
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,560
as possible, which is we all
know that's what people try and

449
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:28,000
get out of technology.
That kind of approach, you know,

450
00:24:28,120 --> 00:24:32,920
it's obviously making it harder
to find a meaningful long term

451
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,800
relationship.
What other ways would you say

452
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:39,280
that the Internet or dating apps
or technology in general makes

453
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:43,280
it harder for people to find a
meaningful date that then might

454
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:45,760
become a relationship to them,
might become, you know,

455
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:49,080
something even longer than that?
I think the whole thing with the

456
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:53,200
philtres, it's a, it's a trap.
It's a trap that everybody falls

457
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:58,680
into 'cause you think that you
need someone to be XY and Z, or

458
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,720
you need them to be not AB and C
for you to be happy.

459
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:07,000
And you actually don't realise
that you don't need all of those

460
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:08,720
things.
You might need some of them.

461
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,840
Like, I mean, obviously, you
know, there are obviously

462
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,080
everyone has reasonable
boundaries, but when you've got

463
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:19,240
preferences, you're not allowing
any room to be pleasantly

464
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:24,480
surprised that that is the thing
that I think that technology has

465
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:28,040
taken away a little bit.
Of course, you can learn to

466
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,920
overcome that and, and not judge
people so quickly or so harshly

467
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:36,120
and just take one extra step in
the process to get to know them.

468
00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:38,920
Like if you're not sure, have
some messages with them.

469
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,000
Or if you've had some messages,
speak on the phone.

470
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,320
If you've spoke on the phone, go
on one date.

471
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,680
Just because you go on one date
with someone doesn't mean you're

472
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:47,040
going to marry them.
Like, yeah.

473
00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:49,520
For sure.
You don't have to you just if

474
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,160
you just take one more step in
the getting to know your

475
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,360
process.
If you're not sure, you may end

476
00:25:55,360 --> 00:25:58,920
up being pleasantly surprised
and instead of holding so fast

477
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,360
to he has to be within this age
range, or he has to live within

478
00:26:02,360 --> 00:26:06,360
this this parameter, or he has
to have a university degree, or

479
00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:09,040
he has to this, or he has to be
a professional who wears a suit

480
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,920
and tie, or he has to, you know,
like you, you don't need these

481
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:13,520
things as much as you think you
do.

482
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:18,040
You you need someone who you
find attractive, whose company

483
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:23,360
you enjoy, who treats you well,
and with whom you have an easy

484
00:26:23,360 --> 00:26:28,960
relationship, where you want
fight, really, you make up

485
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,320
quickly.
You want to be committed in the

486
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,480
same ways.
So you want to be monogamous, or

487
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,680
you want to live together, or
you want to be married, or you

488
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:38,560
want to have kids or you
whatever, whatever.

489
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,080
These are the things that are
going to make you happy.

490
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:47,240
A guy who is 6/1 is not going to
make you happier than a guy

491
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,760
who's 511.
He just isn't right.

492
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,040
It's it's irrelevant when it
comes down to spending your life

493
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,800
with someone.
And so in the early stages, we

494
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:58,680
can think we can make the
mistake.

495
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,640
And gosh, I did for the longest
time made the mistake of

496
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,800
thinking I need this kind of a
guy and I know what I want.

497
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:09,280
And I didn't know anything.
I thought I did.

498
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:14,520
But what I The thing is, this is
the thing, OK, I actually ended

499
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:18,880
up getting everything I wanted.
I just got it in a package that

500
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,400
I didn't expect, right?
So I wanted someone smart.

501
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,640
I wanted someone funny.
I wanted someone sophisticated.

502
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,960
But I thought I needed someone
who is university educated,

503
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,480
someone who made X amount of
money, someone who lived in a

504
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,600
certain place, someone I
thought, I thought I needed this

505
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,400
criteria to get the smart, the
funny that they.

506
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:43,080
And when I started being a
little bit more open minded and

507
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:47,760
I met my husband, I like because
he didn't take a lot of those

508
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:52,120
boxes in the past, I would have
gone on, No, no, no, he's not,

509
00:27:52,120 --> 00:27:54,560
he's not right for me.
Whereas then I was starting to

510
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:56,000
be a little bit more open
minded.

511
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,120
And when I got to know him, I
found out he was all those

512
00:27:59,120 --> 00:28:00,880
things.
He was all those things.

513
00:28:01,120 --> 00:28:05,320
He just didn't take all the
check boxes that I thought

514
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,120
needed to be checked to get the
smart, the funny, the

515
00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:12,400
sophisticated.
And so that's why I'm such a big

516
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:16,440
believer in just getting to know
someone just a bit better.

517
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:20,120
I mean, obviously you don't keep
getting to know someone if they

518
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:25,400
treat you badly or you just find
them terribly boring or you're

519
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,840
just not feeling or whatever.
But I think when you're doing

520
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:33,080
online dating, people cut people
off way too soon that they say 1

521
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,400
little thing or they do 1 little
thing or they post a picture

522
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,840
that you don't like or they
whatever.

523
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:43,000
They're, there's a little
subtle, some criteria thing and

524
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,480
you and you're like, Nah,
they're gone.

525
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,760
And I think that's a, a mistake.
And I think that if you could

526
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,360
just get to know people just a
little bit more before you

527
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,080
decide they're not for you,
you're going to find someone a

528
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,920
lot quicker.
That's with online dating.

529
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,440
But you were talking about
technology more broadly, like

530
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,400
social media.
Look, let's carry on from that

531
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,080
point that you were just just
talking about there around being

532
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:09,680
kind of pleasantly surprised.
You know, when when you you kind

533
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,520
of get to see aspects of
somebody that aren't aren't kind

534
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,680
of visible immediately just on
the point of what's at the

535
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,440
surface and what you can see.
You know, you can disregard

536
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,240
someone very quickly if you're
just if you're just kind of

537
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:27,280
looking at that top level staff,
I'm not getting, you know, this

538
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,400
person doesn't have exactly
everything that's on my

539
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:33,080
checklist, etcetera, etcetera.
So you're not really invested

540
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,400
much time or emotion into this
person at all.

541
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:42,280
And so you don't feel possibly
that they're worth that time.

542
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,360
And, and this this leads me on
to my question.

543
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,760
So you've previously spoken
about dating a disrespect.

544
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:53,040
How much of this is tied into
just natural human behaviour?

545
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:57,600
And how much of it do you think
is a byproduct of the way that

546
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,200
this technology works and the
way that people use it?

547
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,920
I mean, obviously I, I think
it's a bit of both, like, you

548
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:05,880
know, it's the whole nature and
nurture thing.

549
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:10,160
I think technology can bring out
the best and the worst in

550
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,080
people.
And we have become a very

551
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,960
instant gratification, minimal
patients culture.

552
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:21,120
But at the same time, you need
to stop and appreciate the

553
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:26,520
unprecedented access to finding
the love of your life that this

554
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:30,680
top technology has created.
And so I think it's AI think

555
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,040
it's a little bit of both.
People are always looking for

556
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,760
ways to be more time efficient.
And so they think that

557
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,920
dismissing someone quickly is
saving time.

558
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,000
But it's not saving time if
you're going from one person to

559
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,680
the next person to the next
person and never finding anyone.

560
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:51,520
So if you put a little bit more
and not, not a lot, just a

561
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:55,320
little bit more time upfront
before you move on from someone,

562
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,880
you're probably going to find
someone a lot quicker because

563
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,560
you'll find that the person that
you were like, I don't know if

564
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,600
I'm that interested.
We, when you get to know them

565
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,840
just a little bit more and a
little bit more, and especially

566
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,840
as you see how they treat you
and you go, oh, wow, they're,

567
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:13,800
you know, they're a really good
listener or they're really

568
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,480
thoughtful, or they always keep
their promises or they're fun,

569
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,800
fun to be with.
If you dismiss them early,

570
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:20,880
you're never going to get to
know any of those things.

571
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,400
Yeah.
And it sounds like that, that,

572
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,040
you know, everything that you
said, and we mentioned it a

573
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,040
couple of minutes ago, as well
as this kind of instant

574
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,880
gratification culture is
actually user behaviour that is

575
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,200
potentially driving so much of
this dissatisfaction with this

576
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:36,640
world.
And that leads me, I guess, to

577
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:41,160
my next point, which is say, say
there's, there's people now who

578
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:45,480
are in their early 20's, the way
that they see the way that

579
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,040
millennials would have used
something like Facebook and,

580
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,480
and, you know, putting
everything out there forever.

581
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:56,840
They, they just find it so
cringe and would not dream of

582
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,880
putting that much stuff online
because, you know, I think that

583
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:03,320
they've had the advantage of
growing up into the world where

584
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:08,360
they can see that one mistake
or, you know, something you do

585
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,440
wrong or say wrong on video has
could potentially have serious

586
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:13,800
consequences.
So they're, they're naturally

587
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,360
way more wary of, of the
technology.

588
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,120
And I, you know, a separate
issue is I think that it's, it's

589
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:22,240
affecting the way that they
interact with each other in the

590
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:26,480
real world.
But are people of younger ages

591
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:30,160
approaching online dating and
relationships differently to,

592
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,680
say, people 10 years ago or 20
years ago?

593
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:37,440
Look, I I'll have to be honest
and say I'm not an expert on Gen

594
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:43,120
Z, but from what I can gather, I
think that they really take all

595
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,920
this technology for granted.
I, I, I think they romanticise

596
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:52,960
what dating was like before
online dating and it's not as

597
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:58,080
great as they think it is.
I was, I was there, I was there,

598
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,480
I did it.
It wasn't that great, right?

599
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,800
You, you didn't necessarily get
treated any better.

600
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,960
It wasn't necessarily easier to
find someone.

601
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:13,520
And especially after a certain
age, like once school and

602
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:18,400
parties and travel and
everything has kind of Pete it

603
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:22,160
out and your friends have paired
up and they're getting engaged

604
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,400
and they're moving in together
and they're, you know, if you're

605
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,360
left single, you're just not
meeting a lot of people anymore.

606
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,360
And that's when I started doing
online dating when I was 27.

607
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,080
But I think that they take it
for granted and they they have

608
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,640
contempt for it.
Yeah, right.

609
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:42,760
They just think that it's like,
ruin the world and ruin dating.

610
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,440
And it's not that extreme.
I think they should be grateful

611
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:47,640
for it.
I think it can be a very useful

612
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:51,840
tool if you use it effectively.
But I also think that when

613
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,560
you're younger, you probably
don't need it quite as much.

614
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,120
Yeah, no, totally.
And I think that you, you touch

615
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,400
on something there which was as
we all know when you are

616
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:04,680
younger, like you've got way
less other stuff generally, you

617
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,080
know, going on in your life.
You know what I mean, like, but

618
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:11,159
how many times do you know
whether it's yourself or your

619
00:34:11,159 --> 00:34:13,520
friends or whatever, you know,
so I can't wait for Friday.

620
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:15,840
I can't wait for Saturday.
It's like the highlight of your

621
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:19,520
week is like going out.
Yes, you know, you deal with the

622
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,520
shit all through the rest of the
week until you get to that that

623
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,080
weekend point and you can deal
deal with that.

624
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,040
So it makes sense that as you
people grow out of that, they're

625
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:33,520
almost a bit lost without
knowing how, as you said, these

626
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:38,280
tools can work and actually just
pivot the way that they try and

627
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:42,239
meet someone without, you know,
getting shitfaced in in a club

628
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,440
or or something, you know, and
everything that comes with that.

629
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,800
But because you are working with
people who who are potentially

630
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:52,719
coming into the world of online
dating and may feel that it's

631
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,800
it's not working for them or
it's a problem, etcetera.

632
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,840
What tactics or strategies would
you say help prime people for

633
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:03,040
success in the world of digital
dating and relationships?

634
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:06,800
The first thing is just having
realistic expectations.

635
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:11,600
I, I have like a 20 step system,
but the, and, but it's broke

636
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,800
into the three parts and the
first part is nailing your

637
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:18,240
online dating mindset.
And then I've got Part 2 is like

638
00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:20,920
nailing your online dating game
and then Part 3 is nailing your

639
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:25,320
offline dating game, but nailing
your online dating mindset in

640
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:29,520
terms of like we talked about
the online dating numbers game.

641
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:34,960
So, you know, if you expect to
get on look at 100 profiles and

642
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,080
go on a date with 50 guys, it's
just not, you're not going to

643
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,360
get 50 dates out of 100
profiles.

644
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:44,160
So just kind of understanding
and then also sort of

645
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:48,480
understanding that online is
just a digital version of the

646
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,880
real world.
It's the, it would be the same

647
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:55,240
statistics if you were to walk
into a a bar or a party or, or

648
00:35:55,240 --> 00:35:56,480
walk down the street.
Yeah.

649
00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:00,440
Just understanding that it's
worth giving as many people as

650
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:04,120
possible a go at the beginning
because they will naturally

651
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,720
philtre out as you go through
the process.

652
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:12,040
And, and then not being so picky
about age and where they live.

653
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,920
And just to allow yourself to be
pleasantly surprised and just

654
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,080
just understanding these, these
things.

655
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:22,480
And then a very sort of basic,
reasonable screening process so

656
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,880
that they're not running out on
coffee dates with every single

657
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,560
guy who asks them on a coffee
date, because that can be really

658
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:32,360
exhausting.
And so I, I say, look, just, you

659
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:36,480
know, swap a few nice messages.
If that goes well, you know,

660
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:41,000
suggests that you have a phone
call and lock in like a day and

661
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,120
a time to speak on the phone.
And then if that goes well and

662
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:47,880
he asks you out, go on the date.
That can all happen within a

663
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:51,720
week, within a week, you, you
can match, you can swap a few

664
00:36:51,720 --> 00:36:55,000
messages, you can speak on the
phone and you can be out on a

665
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,600
date all within seven days.
So it's not a long screening

666
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,720
process, but it just means that
by the time you end up on a date

667
00:37:01,720 --> 00:37:05,640
with someone, someone has taken
a little bit of time to get to

668
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,120
know you and put a little bit of
effort into you.

669
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:13,760
And it's amazing how many guys
like my clients, guys that

670
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,800
they're dating drop off along
that process and they and they,

671
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,920
and they always say, Oh, I'm so
glad I didn't end up on a date

672
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,000
with him because it would have
been boring or he would have

673
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:27,280
been not very nice or whatever.
And so just little things like

674
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,680
that because you can run
yourself ragged going out on a

675
00:37:30,720 --> 00:37:33,840
million coffee dates.
You can also be too picky and

676
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,560
you're not going on any dates
and not getting to know anybody.

677
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,440
And so it's just learning the
whole process.

678
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:42,880
That would be the first thing is
expectations.

679
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:47,840
People go into it with
unrealistic expectations of what

680
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,720
online dating can do for them.
And when they when those

681
00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:53,120
expectations aren't met, they
get very frustrated and they

682
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,120
give up.
And so that's, that's the first

683
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,840
thing, just understanding the
whole process and doing it in a

684
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:03,800
way that feels as effortless as
possible.

685
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:07,640
I mean, obviously dating takes
effort, but it shouldn't make

686
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:09,520
you miserable.
If it's making you miserable,

687
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,800
you're doing something wrong.
Yeah, that's, there's a few, few

688
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,720
themes that that are coming up
through all of that.

689
00:38:15,720 --> 00:38:19,960
And it's, you know, one that I
keep thinking is that, you know,

690
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,120
the more things change, the more
they stay the same, which is our

691
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,640
basic kind of human needs and
wants aren't changing.

692
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,640
It's almost just that the
numbers game feels like you're

693
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:34,600
fighting through so much more
because you're disregarding

694
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,240
everybody.
Whereas you said something there

695
00:38:37,240 --> 00:38:40,000
a couple of minutes ago that you
almost need to flip that numbers

696
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:45,040
game and cast the net wide and
let the natural philtre do its

697
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:46,280
thing.
So this.

698
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:51,240
Yeah, You know, it sounds like a
lot of people claiming that, you

699
00:38:51,240 --> 00:38:55,240
know, the Internet and
technology has ruined dating are

700
00:38:55,240 --> 00:38:59,080
actually partly their own worst
enemy, by the way, that they're

701
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:03,560
using it rather than
strategically like a tool, as as

702
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,880
you've been saying.
But for those people you know

703
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:10,800
who might be feeling overwhelmed
or burnt out by their experience

704
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,320
with dating in this digital
world, what would you say is the

705
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:18,040
most instantly actionable piece
of advice that you would give

706
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:22,160
them to change their mindset and
and get back into it positively?

707
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:28,400
Look, take a break, just don't
take too long a break.

708
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:33,320
So take a take a month off, you
know, take a month off.

709
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,240
Just don't take 6 to 12 months
off.

710
00:39:35,720 --> 00:39:39,880
You, you don't need 6 to 12
months to get over a bad date.

711
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:44,080
You know, like I see it.
Oh man, I see it on social media

712
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:46,360
all the time.
You know, these girls will get

713
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:50,000
on and tell this long rant about
this guy.

714
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,680
And I'm, I'm thinking it's just
one guy.

715
00:39:54,240 --> 00:39:56,680
It's just one guy.
Like the next guy that you meet

716
00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:00,360
online could be really nice.
I'm like, don't let this one guy

717
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,680
ruin it for you, or don't even
let a handful of guys ruin it

718
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,360
for you.
And they, you know, they sort of

719
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,640
think you know, and then you'll
see all these comments

720
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:10,560
underneath.
This is why I don't do online

721
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:12,560
datings.
Like really, This is why this

722
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:15,000
one guy has ruined all of
dating.

723
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:16,760
For you.
Yeah, Yeah, it's kind of.

724
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:18,520
I can.
I can imagine there's something

725
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,640
in that, you know, the whole
misery loves company thing.

726
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:23,240
Oh, like, I'm sure.
Absolutely.

727
00:40:23,240 --> 00:40:26,680
That is probably that is really
one of the most toxic things.

728
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:31,920
Yeah, you know, I can imagine.
Moment it's almost become it's

729
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:36,680
uncool to be optimistic.
It it is absolutely a misery

730
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:40,640
loves company cesspit where
everyone is just in there,

731
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:45,240
especially women bitching and
moaning about men and dating and

732
00:40:45,240 --> 00:40:47,560
it's all awful.
I'm never going to find someone

733
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:50,320
and I've decided to be alone and
blah, blah, blah.

734
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:54,840
And it's just like it's, it's
really, it's really sad.

735
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:58,880
And it's like you have got years
and decades ahead of you.

736
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:03,080
Like don't spend it like.
In negativity.

737
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:06,760
Yeah, in that in that negative
mindset, yeah, it's a real

738
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,400
shame.
And it's and if you jumped into

739
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,520
the one of those comments and
said something positive about

740
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:16,080
dating, you would get destroyed.
Really.

741
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:19,280
That sounds awful.
Yeah.

742
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,200
It's like real crabs in a bucket
stuff.

743
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:25,880
Yeah, That's that's God, that's
so interesting.

744
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,120
And that makes so much sense
that everybody would have

745
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:32,560
probably had a bad experience.
And the way to kind of

746
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:37,320
commiserate and show camaraderie
is by saying, yeah, I've had a

747
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:40,880
bad experience too.
And then maybe overplaying how

748
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:44,200
bad it was of who's had the
worst dating experience and just

749
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:47,680
kind of becomes this mentally
self fulfilling prophecy.

750
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,520
Yeah, well, it's just kind of, I
think it's letting the bad guys

751
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:53,280
win.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

752
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:59,400
Why would you let these, you
know, a holes ruin your entire

753
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,280
love life?
Like don't let them like rise

754
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,840
above it.
Like, of course, look, everybody

755
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:10,760
needs to, you know, sort of
download every now and then.

756
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:14,080
And you know, there's nothing
wrong with having a, a whinge to

757
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:17,920
your girlfriends or you know, or
sharing a bad experience or

758
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:20,560
whatever.
But it's when you let that one

759
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,560
bad experience or a few bad
experiences like ruin your

760
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:27,720
entire romantic future and you
decide that I'm not never dating

761
00:42:27,720 --> 00:42:31,800
again or I hate all men or
whatever, that that's when I, I

762
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:35,440
think it's really sad and
unfortunate.

763
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:40,320
And life isn't short.
Life is long and there are life

764
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:43,080
is long and there are many years
and decades.

765
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:48,040
And I don't think that you
should let a few bad apples or

766
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:50,760
even more than a few bad apples
spoil the bunch.

767
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:55,200
I mean, I have seen people pick
themselves up and dust

768
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:59,400
themselves off and find love
again against all odds.

769
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:03,360
And I just have so much
admiration for them.

770
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:09,680
My have got a funny story.
My husband's aunt lost her

771
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:14,320
husband when she was in her late
70s.

772
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:18,200
And when she was 80, she got
remarried.

773
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:22,400
And she was with that husband
for 12 years until he passed

774
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:26,400
away when she was 9212 years.
Yeah. 12 years.

775
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:30,640
And you would think that like at
80, all of that is over.

776
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:35,320
No, she had a whole 12 year
relationship with someone after

777
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:39,160
the age of 80 and I what?
A great story.

778
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:40,880
You're not.
You're not gone until you're

779
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,800
gone.
Yeah, look, and I think that

780
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,400
that's that's such a good way of
of looking at it.

781
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:52,280
And it seems like that for all
the talk of how, you know, the

782
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:57,200
Internet has ruined dating for
so many people, a lot of it, as

783
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:00,920
you said, have just can kind of
come down to two keywords, which

784
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:04,600
is perseverance and positivity.
And I'm sure that if you are

785
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:07,480
persevering and positive, like
attracts like.

786
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:09,480
And I guess that's what
everybody's going to want.

787
00:44:09,720 --> 00:44:12,840
Thanks so much for that, Ellie.
What's on the horizon for you

788
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,000
and where can people follow what
you're up to?

789
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:23,680
OK well my website is your
dating bestie.com I have a free

790
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:25,880
training.
It's a 20 minute video.

791
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:29,520
It's called empowered AF.
How to find Mr. Right without

792
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:32,200
having to change yourself, lower
your standards or waste your

793
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,480
time.
I have a podcast called the your

794
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:39,120
dating bestie podcast.
I also turn each episode into an

795
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:44,840
article on medium and sub stack.
And if you just Google my name,

796
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:50,000
Ellie Klein E double Y Klein is
Klein just like Calvin Klein

797
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,000
underwear.
I'm proud of that.

798
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:57,800
You can find me or just you can
search your dating bestie on,

799
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:01,640
you know, Instagram and medium
sub stack and podcasts and

800
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:03,360
you'll find me.
Awesome, Ali.

801
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:05,480
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much Gareth, great

802
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:07,880
chat.
For more info on what we've

803
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:09,680
discussed today, check out the
show notes.

804
00:45:09,720 --> 00:45:12,200
If you enjoyed this one, you can
subscribe to Ruined by the

805
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:14,800
Internet on your favourite
podcast app and help spread the

806
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:17,160
word by sharing this episode or
leaving a review.

807
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:19,200
I'm Gareth King, see you next
time.