Has the internet ruined Magic & Illusion? - Cosentino: The Grand Illusionist

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Welcome to Ruined by the
Internet.

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I'm Gareth King.
Today we're asking, has the

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Internet ruined magic and
illusion?

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By demystifying the craft,
exposing its secrets and

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reducing complex tricks to bite
sized content, has the

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foundation of all magic mystery
been eroded?

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Joining us to delve into this
world is Cosentino, Australia's

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most successful magician,
illusionist and escape artist,

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known to audiences around the
world as the Grand Illusionist.

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Cosantino, thank you so much for
joining us today and welcome to

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the show.
My absolute pleasure.

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Thank you for having me.
I'm very excited to be here.

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Before we begin, can you tell us
about your journey from just

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starting out to becoming the
Grand Illusionist?

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Oh wow.
I started Magic when I was very,

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very young.
When I was 12.

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I was very shy kid, very
introverted, low self esteem.

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This is all due to the fact that
I had a lot of learning

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difficulties.
I didn't learn to read till I

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was 12 and it was challenging.
My mother was a school principal

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and she was going mad and they
were taking me to all these

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specialist classes and they were
saying, you know, he can't, he

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can't see properly.
So they took me to the

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optometrist and they would say
read out the letters and I

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couldn't read them.
So they gave me glasses which I

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could see, I could see perfectly
well.

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I just couldn't read the
letters.

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And then I'd basically fallen
through the cracks.

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And my mother, like I said, she
was going absolutely mad.

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And one day she take took me to
the library, which of course is

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the last place a kid who can't
read wants to be.

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And I'm there forced to look
through books.

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And I came across a beautiful
book that had these old

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vaudevillian posters of these
famous magicians from the late

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18, early 1900s.
And they look like comic books.

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They, they predate comic books,
but they, they're hand

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illustrated and they're
originally designed to do

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massive posters to be stuck on
the walls outside theatres to

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attract an audience and bring
them in.

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And basically it drew me in.
And I remember seeing this

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poster of this guy with with all
these handcuffs up his wrist and

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he was like kind of staring down
the barrel of the camera.

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And I said to my mother, who,
who is this guy?

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And she said, that's Houdini.
And she went on to explain who

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he was and what he did and how
he would jump off bridges

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handcuffed and chained.
And he would do these incredible

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things.
He'd be locked up in gaol cells

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all across the globe and somehow
got out of them.

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People thought he melted and
dematerialized through them.

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And I thought, wow, this is
awesome.

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He's like a superhero.
And my mother said, well, no,

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he's not make believe.
He's not even a comic book.

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He's a real guy.
He really did this.

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That is what fascinated me.
And so we borrowed this

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particular book and in the back
of it, it had magic tricks

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designed for adults.
And so my mother would patiently

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sit with me.
She would read the tricks to me,

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the description of how it would
look to an audience and then the

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method or the secret.
And it's quite complicated.

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And it would have these little
illustrations and you'd have to

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like, read each word, analyse
it, then kind of go, oh, OK, so

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I've got to put the pack of
cards in my left hand and I've

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got to put my, my right pinky on
this.

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So you have to, you know, really
dissect everything.

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And that process with her
patience led to me understanding

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what I was reading as opposed to
just listening.

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And quite complicated, too, for
a kid that was 12.

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And, you know, metamorphosis and
transposition and all these

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words, like, I couldn't even
read.

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Like, these are big words for a
kid.

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And I, I learned some magic
tricks.

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And through this process, I was
so fascinated.

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There was no Internet.
You couldn't learn magic through

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any other means.
You had to go to a library,

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borrow a book.
And I became obsessed.

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And I, I learned to read.
And of course, reading is linked

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to writing and spelling, but
more importantly, it was linked

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to my confidence.
And so I could finally read and

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this weight was lifted and I
gained a very unique skill.

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So that's how it all started.
I didn't see a magician on TV or

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the Internet or anything like
that and thought, oh, that's

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cool, let's do that.
I just learnt a little skill

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that made me feel special and
unique from a kid who was coming

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from a place where they were
very crippled.

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Like, I mean, I'll be at the
back of the classroom with my

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head down, avoid being asked a
question.

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You know, I'd get so embarrassed
if the teacher said read out

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loud, obviously because I
couldn't read.

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So I was disguising all these
disabilities.

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And then magic kind of really
enhanced me and my personality.

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And that's why I think I love it
so much.

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I'm still passionate about it,
you know, over 2 decades later.

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Having been in the game for such
a long time now, what would you

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say are the biggest changes
you've seen in in Magic that

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have been born out of the
Internet and technology?

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When I grew up watching Magic in
the 90s, it was very theatrical,

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so you had people like David
Copperfield and Sigfred and Roy.

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Before that, in the the 70s,
there was a guy called Doug, but

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I would go back and watch his
VHS tape.

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So very, very much based on
theatre and everything you saw

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was kind of the stage show but
filmed for television.

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Tell you what also changed in
the beginning, how you would

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discover magic tricks.
You didn't just go into a magic,

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they started to to kind of
dwindle away.

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So you'd read a description
online about a trick and then

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you would kind of purchase that
trick or get the rights to that

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trick.
Instead of going to a library to

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read a book and learn a trick,
you would kind of purchase one

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off off a website that could be
from anywhere around the world.

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Very often you would get
something that was absolute

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trash, but that was the first
change to me.

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Yeah.
So that's almost almost a

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different kind of accessibility
even before we get into, you

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know, watching step by What
would you say the biggest

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challenge for someone like
yourself?

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Who's who?
Does you know big stage

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illusions when you're in
competition for attention

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against someone who primarily
does small TikTok type videos?

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And does someone who can master
both have an obvious advantage?

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It's really interesting because
as magicians even from in

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Australia that have massive
TikTok followings or social

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media followings, but it doesn't
necessarily mean that following

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translates to a life scenario.
Like so in magic, there's close

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up magic.
Close up magic could be done in

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a restaurant or be done in a
party.

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Then you've got St magic, which
is a bit more like busking.

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Then you've got theatre stage
illusions.

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Then you've got kind of a
parlour setting, which is more

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like stand up kind of comedy
magic.

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So there's all these different
genres and then within that

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there's like escapes, there's
grand illusions, there's

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mentalism.
So you know, creating the

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illusion that you're reading
people's minds or predicting the

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future.
So there's all these sub genres

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as well.
And now there's different ways

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to present it could be on TV,
could be live, could be all on

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social media platforms.
So because of the literal 90

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seconds to 3 minutes that you
have, the tricks that people are

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presenting now seem to be, in my
opinion, less theatrical and

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more about the actual just a
trick because you kind of have

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no choice.
Now.

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I come from a world where you
build up the theatrics.

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So for example, if I was going
to do some kind of escape,

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instead of just doing the
escape, I want to prove that I'm

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using real locks, that I'm
really holding my breath, that

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there's no way for me to escape
from the water tank.

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That in itself takes 3 minutes
just to prove all that to the

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audience.
So in order for me to tackle

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that, when I present online,
it's completely different to how

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I do a stage show or even a
television show.

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Even in television, you can take
a little more time, and that to

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me makes the magic more potent
and that adds to the drama of

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what you're about to do.
So for me, presentation is, I

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mean, I know people would argue
against me, but from my

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perspective, presentation is
lost.

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So I don't know.
I, I think it's challenging for

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me because I've got to keep
switching in like, OK, and I'm

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doing this for social media.
So it's going to look like this.

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I'm doing this for stage.
It looks like that.

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But I, I, I think now I'm really
getting a handle on how to

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tackle each one.
But if you were to say to me,

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what do I prefer doing even over
like my own television?

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I've done so much TV.
I, I, I prefer live, which is so

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much harder to do, but it allows
a little breathing room and,

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and, and, and seeing magic live.
I, I, I think nobody would argue

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against me on this.
Seeing it live is far more

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spectacular than seeing it,
whether it's on TV or on social

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media.
That's, you know, such an

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interesting, interesting point
because obviously you have had

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that huge success in the live
environment and in the TV

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environment.
And as you said, also down to

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say, the social media
environment, the live

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experience, even if it is being
broadcast directly through ATV

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screen, you're still only
getting one tiny piece of the

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puzzle.
But that said, can you just

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quickly tell us a few of your
favourite performances that

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you've done?
Wow.

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I've done.
I'll tell you what, we really

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was very, very special to me.
My hero growing up in the 90s

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was David Copperfield.
And, and just still to this day,

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I think it's hard to argue
against how spectacular he was

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and, and how much he changed my
art form.

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So I still think he's, he's the
GOAT.

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And I saw him as a teenager at
the Regent Theatre in Melbourne

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and I was in the 2nd row and I
made sure that I got the best

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tickets possible.
And I, I remember sitting next

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to his parents.
I knew who his parents were.

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I was a big, big fan of him.
And I was sitting right next to

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his parents.
I actually gave his parents a

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letter that they gave to ended
up giving to David Copperfield.

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And he ended up writing me a
letter and they're giving me a

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sign.
PO It was lovely.

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It was lovely.
Anyway, so the point is I'm at

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the Regent Theatre, I'm in the
2nd row and I'm watching David

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Copperfield and it's just
spectacular.

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And that would have been in 1998
or 99.

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And then in 2011, when I
auditioned for Australia's Got

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Talent, I had to walk out on
stage on the Regent Theatre and

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I thought, Oh my gosh, this is
where David Copperfield

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performed.
I'm incredible.

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And here I was now being in
front of a live audience and

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being judged.
It was very overwhelming.

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And then exactly a year later,
after Australia's Got Talent,

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Dara was again at the Regent
Theatre filming my own

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television special and being the
first Australian ever have their

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own TV special on the same
stage.

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And it was like this really full
circle moment for me.

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So it's not one particular
piece, but I guess it, those

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three pieces together in that
same venue hold a very special

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place in in my heart.
You know, seeing my hero

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auditioning on this show and
then doing my own show and being

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the first to ever do it very,
very so that that that was very,

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very special.
But in many moments when I'm

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performing in Singapore, Marina
Bay Sands is incredible,

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performing in Vietnam, being on
the streets of the Philippines,

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performing like I have so many
fond memories and I'm really

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look, it's not easy what I do,
man, Everyone, everyone says

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it's probably about the job, but
it but it's very rewarding.

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You spoke about something there,
which was that first audition on

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Australia's Got Talent of yours.
Obviously you've been at it for

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for a while before that moment
from that audition, which you

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just talked about to becoming
like this global name was a very

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rapid, right?
For any young magician out there

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that might be thinking this is
something I'm going to do as

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well.
What might they face today that

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00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:49,360
you didn't have to face at that
point?

227
00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:53,560
I had done 15 years prior to
Australia's Got Talent of work.

228
00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,040
And when I mean work, I mean
proper work, like working on

229
00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:59,240
cruise ships, putting on shows
in shopping centres, you know,

230
00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,280
10 shows a week, doing school
incursions, putting on my own

231
00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:06,640
theatre shows, creating my own
posters, working out how to, you

232
00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:09,160
know, take a photo, no iPhones,
no iPhones.

233
00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:12,520
So working how to work with a
photographer and pose and then

234
00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:15,920
going to a graphic designer, I
happened to be a cousin work,

235
00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:19,240
sitting with them, working out
how to use, you know, Photoshop

236
00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:21,560
and they're doing all that and
there's no camera, there was no

237
00:11:21,560 --> 00:11:23,480
like quick video and all that
stuff.

238
00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:24,800
So I had to learn all these
things.

239
00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:26,960
So 15 years to get to
Australia's Got Talent.

240
00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,720
And then you kind of see that
quick progression, but not

241
00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:32,880
really quick.
From my perspective, I was ready

242
00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:34,920
for it and it kind of
turbocharged everything.

243
00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,360
Actually, it took three years
for me to agree to do the show,

244
00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:39,880
but I was doing my own shows.
I agreed to do their show.

245
00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:41,160
I didn't even think too much
about it.

246
00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,560
In actual fact, I couldn't even
make my second audition because

247
00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:46,600
I was in some regional town
doing my own show.

248
00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:47,760
And I said, oh guys, I can't
make it.

249
00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:48,760
It's all good, don't worry about
it.

250
00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:50,960
And they were like, no, no, no,
no, no, we'll get you there.

251
00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:53,280
And they kind of worked around
my schedule to get me there.

252
00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:55,120
So I was doing my own thing
shows and then that turbocharged

253
00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:56,520
everything and all those shows
sold out.

254
00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,360
And it was a lot of work to get
to that that point and then let

255
00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,360
it kind of skyrocket.
And I guess the second part of

256
00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:04,600
your question was what would be
the difference now?

257
00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:06,720
I think everything is now
online.

258
00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:08,120
And this is interesting.
Actually.

259
00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:11,240
When we did Australia's Got
Talent, they said to us, you're

260
00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:15,040
not allowed to post on Facebook
or Instagram about your

261
00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,320
performances.
That sounds like madness now,

262
00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:19,520
doesn't it?
Yeah, I have heard actually

263
00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,960
similar things around say,
reality shows these days.

264
00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,320
I guess the people on the shows,
we'll call them the stars, you

265
00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:30,040
know, have their accounts kind
of embargoed and and managed by

266
00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:32,520
the networks.
So it's interesting to hear that

267
00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:36,640
that was happening all the way
back then before there was so

268
00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:40,640
much that we've learnt around
the impact of social media and

269
00:12:40,680 --> 00:12:43,440
the way that people operate
online since then.

270
00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:48,440
But on that point, there's 2 two
things I want to touch on as

271
00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:50,080
well.
You know, we know that if you

272
00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,320
were a young a young person
trying to get into it now,

273
00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:57,760
you've obviously got the ability
to build a following and kind of

274
00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:01,080
create your own pathways which
which weren't available to say

275
00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:04,760
someone like your yourself.
But back to the notion around

276
00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:08,120
performance and, you know,
theatrics, which is quite a big

277
00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:12,240
part of what you do in the
current digital world that we're

278
00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:16,520
in, which elements of magic and
illusion have become more

279
00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,520
important than ever.
Is it that theatrics and

280
00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:21,880
performance and even kind of
personality?

281
00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:24,680
Look, I'm always going to lean
towards that because that's how

282
00:13:24,680 --> 00:13:27,040
I kind of grew up.
That's what I grew up watching.

283
00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:29,880
You know, my my heroes were Gene
Kelly and Fred Astaire and

284
00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:32,400
Michael Jackson and Madonna and
Prince and very theatrical

285
00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:34,520
performers.
So I'm always going to lean that

286
00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:36,680
way.
I kind of think now with social

287
00:13:36,680 --> 00:13:39,520
media, I believe people are very
fixated on the actual trick,

288
00:13:39,560 --> 00:13:41,640
like getting the trick out.
You've got 90 seconds, get the

289
00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:43,480
trick out, make it be a really
good trick.

290
00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:46,360
Now there is personality
involved in it, like the way

291
00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:49,520
people speak or how they might
present it or film it or light

292
00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:51,760
it.
I think everything, I think

293
00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,760
what's really worthy of success
in magic is presentation.

294
00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,720
It's just challenging to do that
in in such a short time span.

295
00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:03,640
Has the the move towards social
media and people kind of

296
00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:08,800
building a following via short
clips, is that almost detracted

297
00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:11,040
from the amount of people
wanting to do the big

298
00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:15,360
performances or is it, you know,
is there still the same

299
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,640
aspiration amongst?
People no, I think it's the same

300
00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,880
aspiration because I see people
with social media following,

301
00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:26,040
building up their, their, their
following their database of

302
00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:29,320
people and then always trying to
do theatre show.

303
00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,440
You seem to see, you actually
see it a lot too with with

304
00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:34,760
comedians who might be really
hot online then all of a sudden

305
00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,840
like they're doing a stand up
tour show or whatever it may be.

306
00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,560
So I do think it always comes
back to the live show no matter

307
00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:42,800
what happens.
For some reason it still seems

308
00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:46,120
to come back to that.
Yeah, it does feel that what you

309
00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:50,880
do is so I mean at least to me
anyway, it feels like so much

310
00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:55,200
more special in in a live kind
of let's call it analogue for

311
00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:58,640
just the the purposes of this
versus digital where you might

312
00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:00,080
be looking at it through a
screen.

313
00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,240
I mean you're not getting much
of the vibe or anything through

314
00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:06,160
through screen.
But how do performers today

315
00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:11,240
balance protecting the secrets
of those live performances

316
00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:14,680
amongst the realities of of an
interconnected digital world

317
00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:17,760
where people are trying to
expose those tricks?

318
00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:21,200
How much we consider is that
when you're preparing or

319
00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:25,280
planning or performing and is it
a big hurdle to anything that

320
00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:26,720
you do?
Yeah, I mean, you can get bogged

321
00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:30,600
down in overthinking, like, OK,
so if I if I put like a snippet

322
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:34,040
of this particular piece online,
then does it give too much away

323
00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:35,480
of the show?
Kind of like when you're moving,

324
00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:37,840
there's a trailer that comes out
and everyone goes all the best

325
00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:39,680
parts, we're in the trailer, you
know?

326
00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:42,600
So yeah, I'm quite conscious of
that and not giving too much

327
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:44,720
away and keeping a lot of
surprise, the element of

328
00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:48,120
surprise for the live show.
And then there's another aspect

329
00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,400
of like people going to try and
debunk all of this if it's put

330
00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:53,920
online and, and, and what's you
know, what's that?

331
00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:57,320
But but you can get, honestly,
you can get so caught up in all

332
00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,440
of that that you forget why
you're doing what you're doing

333
00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:01,960
in the 1st place.
All the secrets of how

334
00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,200
everything is done is readily
available now.

335
00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,760
So we come back now again to how
is it presented?

336
00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:12,040
How are you wrapping it up?
How are you packaging it?

337
00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,280
Is it entertaining if it's too
much about the trick again,

338
00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:17,520
which is again, which is
interesting because online it's

339
00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,200
to me, it's all about the trick.
But if it's too much about the

340
00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:24,120
trick, then you've lost a huge
part of that connection you make

341
00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:26,640
with the audience.
And I'll give you an example.

342
00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,600
I do a piece in the show.
It's the linking rings.

343
00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:31,920
Everyone knows what it is.
Everyone's seen it for years.

344
00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:35,720
It's nothing spectacular.
And I do the ACT because I talk

345
00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,880
about it being the first routine
that I learned as a little boy

346
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,640
that I performed for my mother,
who obviously taught me how to

347
00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:45,200
read and taught me magic.
And she was really blown away by

348
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:46,800
it.
And I performed it to music.

349
00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:48,840
It was very theatrical.
And she said, oh, it's so

350
00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,200
beautiful.
And you know, I love it so much.

351
00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,000
Make sure when you grow up, you
never, you never lose that.

352
00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,960
So I tell this story and it's
quite emotional and mothers

353
00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:58,840
connect with it.
And then I performed the linking

354
00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:00,720
ring routine, which is only with
two rings.

355
00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:02,760
It's nothing spectacular.
I'm being honest about it.

356
00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:05,839
But the reason why we keep it is
because of the story.

357
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,760
And that story connects.
Yeah, yeah.

358
00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:10,720
And.
And that makes that PE, you

359
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,800
know, here I am hanging upside
down from burning ropes, jumping

360
00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,040
in and out of water tanks,
making people appear and

361
00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:17,960
disappear and teleport and
levitate.

362
00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:20,920
And I remember that.
So that tells you it's about an

363
00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:25,800
emotional connection that kind
of transforms the experience,

364
00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:29,360
which again in the digital world
is is a little more challenging

365
00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,200
to do than than as we said in
the analogue world.

366
00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:35,000
Yeah, of course.
And I think you raised a good

367
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,320
point there that I want to go
into now as well.

368
00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:41,320
If everyone's kind of only got a
very short window of time to

369
00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:45,760
communicate something like a
highlight reel online, does that

370
00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:49,640
change your approach of
producing stuff for online or is

371
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:54,000
it still you're still trying to
give it as much of A sell as you

372
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,600
can?
No, no, no, online you're very

373
00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:59,000
conscious and you're also
conscious because you can tell

374
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:01,200
if you do like a three minute, 4
minute video, it doesn't get

375
00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:03,920
anywhere near the same kind of
attention than if you did a, a

376
00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,680
32nd video or a 92nd video.
So yes, I'm, I'm actually

377
00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:09,680
conscious of sometimes I don't
care.

378
00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:11,480
It's just like, well, I'm just
gonna do it, whatever.

379
00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:12,800
But yeah, you do think about
ego.

380
00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:14,640
Geez, I can't really put a 6
minute piece up.

381
00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:17,520
You do it definitely changes the
approach.

382
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:20,480
And again, some people kind of
they're in that genre.

383
00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:23,640
So instead of them being a close
up magician or a stage magician,

384
00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:25,520
they're like, you know, an
online magician, which is

385
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:27,400
totally fine.
It's just a very different

386
00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:30,400
approach.
And maybe they shouldn't be

387
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:32,240
compared.
Like maybe we we shouldn't be

388
00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:35,120
saying, oh, people who do it
online aren't as good as people

389
00:18:35,120 --> 00:18:39,080
who do it live or vice versa.
Like maybe that's not that's not

390
00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:42,160
a thing.
But it's kind of like a

391
00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:45,280
recording artist being able to
record in a studio and then you

392
00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,400
hear them live and you go, oh,
OK, what happened there?

393
00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,480
Because I could record my trick,
you know, a dozen times to get

394
00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:53,520
it right.
I mean, you could you end up

395
00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:55,200
being a recorded magician to
some degree.

396
00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:58,680
Again, that's a I'm not, no, but
you know, magicians, if they

397
00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:00,360
hear this, it just is what it
is.

398
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:02,760
It's a different way to to to
kind of get it out there.

399
00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,640
Yeah, OK.
And I think on, on that point,

400
00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,200
you know, like Once Upon a time,
as, as you mentioned, it was all

401
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:13,000
very in person, you know, kind
of that's where the, all the

402
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:17,240
mesmerising is, is happening.
And people would have to try and

403
00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:20,320
figure, figure it out.
Like what wow, how did they do

404
00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:22,400
that?
As opposed to, OK, I'm going to

405
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,440
find out how they did that,
where you try and find the, the

406
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:29,040
link of all the steps that kind
of breakdown the trick.

407
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,440
So there's, there's online, you
know, a lot of people that kind

408
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:36,120
of produce that content, which
is breaking stuff down and

409
00:19:36,120 --> 00:19:39,840
revealing the secrets.
What's, what's generally the

410
00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:43,240
feeling about that stuff?
Is it kind, is it a good thing

411
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:45,560
to be like, Hey, people are
people are interested in what

412
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,320
I'm doing?
This is great.

413
00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,680
It's more eyeballs on on the art
form.

414
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:53,240
Or is it something you try and
stay one step ahead of?

415
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:55,440
Like I've got to, I've got to
make something that can't be

416
00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:58,600
figured out by people just
looking for, you know, clicks

417
00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:00,520
and likes by revealing my
secrets.

418
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,440
Look, I think exposing magic for
the purpose of teaching so

419
00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,080
people can learn the art form
and get involved, I think that's

420
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,120
OK.
But exposing for the sake of

421
00:20:10,120 --> 00:20:13,800
exposing for likes, I'm not a
huge fan.

422
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:16,240
It reminds me of like when I was
a child growing up and the mass

423
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,280
magician was on TV and he'd
reveal a lot of tricks.

424
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,320
And the problem was that he
didn't even give you all the

425
00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:23,240
steps.
He only gave you the steps that

426
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,040
were interesting, so you
couldn't even do the tricks.

427
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:27,720
That was a whole other problem
because it became very

428
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,840
misogynistic and it was very, it
kind of belittled the art form.

429
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,880
It simplified it too much and it
said that was a huge problem,

430
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,600
but we got over that.
But yeah, you, I think what

431
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:39,040
happens is people fall into this
trap.

432
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,360
They're performing magic online
and then maybe they show how

433
00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:43,120
tricky he's done and that gets
the most attention.

434
00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:47,280
So then all of a sudden they go,
oh, oh, okay, that's

435
00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:48,440
interesting.
Then they do another trick

436
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,240
online, and then they do another
trick where they expose it

437
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:52,360
online.
It gets more attention again.

438
00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:56,240
They go, wow, So what's gaining
the likes or the attention is

439
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,080
when I reveal the trick or turn
the camera from behind.

440
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:00,960
So they see you performing to
someone.

441
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,920
But the audience, which would be
the people online watching, they

442
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,680
can see how the trick is done.
When they realise that that gets

443
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,800
the most attention, their focus
switches to that.

444
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:13,720
I think that's what happens.
You blend, you know, that

445
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,840
traditional kind of big
performance stuff with some

446
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:18,880
technology within within what
you're doing.

447
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:24,120
Are all performers embracing
technology is kind of a choice?

448
00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:28,240
Are they forced to, or is there
almost a segment that prefers

449
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,960
doing things, you know, for lack
of a better word, that kind of

450
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,560
artisanal way?
I can only look at it from

451
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,160
outside perspective as a
magician though.

452
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:38,840
In general, magicians are very
quick to adapt.

453
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:42,880
Example would be when the
pandemic hit, straight away

454
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,680
magicians jumped online,
realised that now they're

455
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:49,160
working within this frame.
There's certain limitations but

456
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,480
there's certain advantages.
Like I did so many shows online

457
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:56,440
with Zoom and there's advantages
to, to being online too.

458
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,480
Honestly, magicians were jumping
online, putting on live shows or

459
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:03,200
online before anybody.
I mean, I saw some comedians try

460
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,040
and do it and it was very
interesting that it didn't quite

461
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:09,680
have the same effect.
And the comedians really needed

462
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:13,600
that laughter feedback.
Whereas the magician, I can work

463
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:15,840
with you interactively through
the screen, you know, think of a

464
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,000
number, think of a colour.
Wow, here it is.

465
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:22,640
So magicians are really clever
with technology in in my show,

466
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:27,600
there's a lot of tech being used
that you're unaware of.

467
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:29,880
So yeah.
Please, please don't tell me.

468
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:30,760
Tell me what it is.
So.

469
00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:36,080
So we've adapted So.
Much and and and that's one, if

470
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,920
I'm being honest, that's one of
the major positives I can see

471
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,920
that technology has allowed us
to do things that seemed

472
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:47,280
impossible like five years ago.
And again, being disguised

473
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,320
though so it looks very basic,
like you might just be using, I

474
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,560
don't know, a piece of paper and
a pen or whatever it may be but

475
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:55,280
but you know, there's a lot
going on.

476
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,000
Magicians are adapt like they've
adapted and they've been using

477
00:22:58,000 --> 00:22:59,560
it a lot.
Yeah, cool.

478
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:01,560
It's interesting.
Yeah, no, that's, that's a,

479
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,480
that's a really good point.
And I'd like to explore that a

480
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,720
little bit more now.
So you've mentioned that you

481
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,920
incorporate it in all these ways
that that no one will even know.

482
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,480
And let's, let's keep, let's
keep it that way for now.

483
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:17,320
What other ways, you know,
people within the industry kind

484
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:22,400
of using it to, to help their
careers along or, or help get

485
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,720
them started?
We know in music, a lot of

486
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,320
youngsters might produce music,
say in their bedroom and, and

487
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,760
then they can just put it online
and, and get a start that way.

488
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,200
And it just kind of breaks down
all those what were previously

489
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,760
large barriers to entry for, for
people to getting into

490
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,640
different, you know, creative
pursuits.

491
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:43,760
Yes.
Is this the same within the

492
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,920
world of of magic and illusion?
And how is that playing out?

493
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,080
Yeah, absolutely.
Cause 'cause I remember being a,

494
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,640
a kid and having to, I hired A
venue, put on a show, no

495
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,040
audience, pretended there was an
audience, filmed it all.

496
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,920
Had to hire camera crew.
You know, had to budget for all

497
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,440
of this, save up all my money,
you know, put on a show, then

498
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:04,080
had to have someone edit it for
me.

499
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,040
And then we had to package it on
VHS tapes, put little stickers

500
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,280
on and then had to get a
database list of agents,

501
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:14,000
managers, promoters, physically
send out the VHS tape, call him.

502
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,520
Did you watch it?
No, you know, write a letter.

503
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:21,400
It was just so much harder and,
and and costly to get like this

504
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,600
tape into people's hands and
they had to physically get the

505
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,480
tape, pull up, you know, put it
in push play, spend the time to

506
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,240
watch it.
So now you can just film

507
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,760
yourself and it's acceptable.
You could film yourself just

508
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,200
sitting where I am right now
presenting the magic.

509
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,400
And that can straight away be
emailed to an agent or a manager

510
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,440
taking photographs where you got
you can do it on your phone.

511
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,880
Now you have to bring in a
professional photographer and

512
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:45,840
filming yourself, editing
yourself.

513
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,960
All of that's now done in house.
So it it, it is lowered the

514
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,360
entry barrier, which is a great
thing.

515
00:24:52,360 --> 00:24:55,000
It's then when you go to the
next level that there's still

516
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:59,040
kind of this, this kind of this
gap between everyone that's kind

517
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,080
of gets interested in it and
gets involved in it online.

518
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,680
And then whether it becomes like
their profession and, and what's

519
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,000
happening, what's happening
next.

520
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:09,840
But I think that's a good thing
about magic and it's exposed

521
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,120
more people to it because of
that.

522
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,360
So yes, if I, if you would ask
me, what would would I, what

523
00:25:16,360 --> 00:25:18,000
would I have preferred?
Yeah, I would have preferred to

524
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:22,320
be able to have done it in
person here, not having to hire

525
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,360
a venue and, and, and hire a
camera crew or anything like

526
00:25:25,360 --> 00:25:26,640
that.
Just hire my, my friend who

527
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,760
loves filming, you know, or
whatever it may be or film

528
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:30,680
myself.
Like I don't think young people

529
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:37,160
know how how lucky they are in
that regard and how you can get

530
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,240
your video into someone else's
as his hands.

531
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:45,160
Does having so many more people
able to kind of access and and

532
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,680
get into the world and try their
own luck essentially, does that

533
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,400
lift the overall quality by
challenging everyone to almost

534
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:54,720
compete against each other to
push themselves?

535
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,480
Does you know the saying a
rising tide lift all boats apply

536
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,520
to your industry?
Yeah, I think it does.

537
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:05,000
I think having more people
involved in it from coming from

538
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:10,400
different, different worlds like
this mixing pot brings new ideas

539
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:14,120
to it, which I've, I've
definitely seen an elevation in,

540
00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:17,520
in, in the quality of what
people are doing.

541
00:26:19,360 --> 00:26:21,480
And like anything, it's like,
you know, I remember in

542
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,240
Australia, we always used to
have this thing about like, oh,

543
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,320
we don't have a really good
soccer team and we know we're

544
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,560
not very good at soccer, but
that's because we didn't really

545
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:32,040
have training programmes to get
young people involved.

546
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,720
And so you, you got to be able
to nurture that.

547
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,040
So I think, I definitely think
by that, that entry barrier

548
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,160
being lower, I think it brings
more people in.

549
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,080
Whereas in the past there was a
lot of the shut doors, like if,

550
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,560
if you, if you wanted to learn
magic, you really had to kind of

551
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,400
seek it out, go to the library,
borrow a book, spend the time,

552
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,920
analyse it, try and work out
what's going on, go to a magic

553
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,840
shop, join a magic club.
Like all of a sudden there's

554
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:58,720
here, there's a lot more
involved already than just being

555
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:02,160
on YouTube.
The magic magic shop, from my

556
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,440
experience would be like, no,
you're not really ready to learn

557
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:05,960
that or they wouldn't let you
learn that.

558
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,080
Like they would go keep it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

559
00:27:08,120 --> 00:27:10,480
yeah, yeah.
It was pretty like part of that

560
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,160
sucked.
Like, I'm being honest, part of

561
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,120
that was a bit like, well, why?
You know who who are you to tell

562
00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:16,520
me that?
But then part of me is also

563
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,920
like, it's also like, you know,
when you see kids, I did some

564
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,120
like break dance classes when I
was a kid and all the kids

565
00:27:24,120 --> 00:27:25,600
wanted to do is learn how to do
backflips.

566
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,440
But you, you, they, you have to
learn like you have to, they all

567
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:30,560
want to do the cool tricks, but
the teacher would be like, no,

568
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:32,920
you got to learn this first, or
you got to understand this

569
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,120
foundation or you could hurt
yourself or, you know, there's

570
00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:36,400
no point just learning big
tricks.

571
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,760
But some kids just wanted to
learn big tricks because really

572
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,960
what they wanted to do was show
so off show the big tricks.

573
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,040
I think that's a little bit that
can happen in magic too.

574
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,200
So, but I do think in general
that that more people are being

575
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,400
involved and more thinking
lifts, yeah, lifts, lifts the

576
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,520
entire art form I do.
And I think that one of the

577
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:59,720
things that you know, everybody
would be aware of is that that

578
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,240
can now come very easily from
anywhere around the world.

579
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,120
And you can see what people are
doing all over the globe.

580
00:28:06,360 --> 00:28:09,920
Rather than kind of your local
shop, where as you said, you

581
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,160
might get gate kept out of
accessing a, a certain trick,

582
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,760
which is which is cool.
But does, you know, with so many

583
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:22,280
people kind of tuning in online,
does that demand for content

584
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,280
mean that people can get burnt
out trying to keep up with that

585
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,440
demand?
Or do you really just focus on,

586
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:32,640
you know, your own thing?
And if it translates down into a

587
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,640
piece of content, that's wicked.
If it doesn't, OK, cool.

588
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:37,840
The bigger, the bigger
performance and the bigger

589
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:39,200
illusion.
That's the real goal.

590
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,000
For me, you've described me
100%.

591
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,600
My goal is, you know, I do
television, I do live shows, and

592
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,360
then socials are secondary.
Not because I don't like it,

593
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,320
just because to put a whole
theatrical stage show together

594
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,760
and any magician or any
performer knows this, it's very,

595
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:59,440
very challenging to actually do
a 2 hour show and do it properly

596
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,520
and seamless and cast and crew
and lighting and sound and AV

597
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:03,600
and everything.
Question.

598
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,240
So you know, that's what I do
primarily.

599
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,360
So that's my first focus and my
first love.

600
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:12,240
But I think other people, their
focus would be, I just want to

601
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:16,400
do the content online and or no,
I'm getting results from the

602
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:20,160
content online and therefore all
their focus and energy is on

603
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,120
that, which makes sense because
that's where the results are

604
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,360
coming from.
But but you can tell online

605
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,440
magicians, pretty much their
focus is is is.

606
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,120
Online, you know, makes sense
that it would be a bit difficult

607
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:33,480
to translate something that
you've purposely focused on a

608
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:37,760
creator to be viewed through
such a tiny device into a world

609
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,800
where it is just so much more
wondrous and, and big.

610
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,600
And, you know, for me
personally, like that's where

611
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,160
the wow factor comes from.
And, you know, I'm somebody that

612
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:50,600
doesn't actually want to know
how it's done.

613
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:54,400
I would, I would rather keep,
you know, some magic in the

614
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,040
world, like if you're a kid and
Santa's coming or you know,

615
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,840
Easter Bunny or whatever it is.
So I don't really want to know

616
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,680
the the secrets behind what you
do, but there is a lot of people

617
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:06,520
that do.
And obviously there's there's

618
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,960
that demand for that kind of
content, knowing that that world

619
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,880
exists where there's a an entire
subsection of the audience that

620
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,000
exists to literally just peek
behind the curtain and know how

621
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,440
it's done.
Does that mean that when you

622
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:23,040
create this genuine sense of
wonder and disbelief in an

623
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,440
audience, is that even more
rewarding these days?

624
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:26,840
Yeah.
Absolutely.

625
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,720
And some degree of the live
audience, everyone's got access

626
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,480
at their fingertips to, to, to
how things are done.

627
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:39,280
And so when you manage to amaze
and baffle and not fool, it's

628
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:41,240
not about ha ha, I'm really,
really clever.

629
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,680
You're not that.
That is never the way that I

630
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,000
approach it.
But to bring that sense of

631
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,120
astonishment is a beautiful
thing.

632
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:54,040
And yes, now in today's age, it
feels even more special to some

633
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:55,520
degree.
And this is something you learn

634
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:57,600
very, very quickly as a
magician.

635
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,000
You think it's all about you.
In the beginning, like I got

636
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,600
into magic because I was shy, I
was introverted, and I learned

637
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,360
how to eat fire, and then I
learned how to take a $5 note

638
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,160
and change it to A10.
It's all about me, Me, me, me,

639
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,560
me, me, me, me, me.
It's a very selfish endeavour.

640
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:12,840
You practise in your bedroom by
yourself in front of a mirror,

641
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,080
watching yourself, videotaping
yourself, Self, self, self,

642
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:16,680
self, self.
I'm the grand illusionist.

643
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,080
And then you realise it's not
about me at all.

644
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,360
It's actually, and I don't know
if all magicians realise that,

645
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,200
but I definitely realise that
it's not about me, it's actually

646
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,360
about the audience.
How does the audience feel?

647
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,320
Again, when I did that linky
wing routine, how did I make

648
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,800
them feel?
I have to share a part of myself

649
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,280
in order to move them, in order
to touch their souls.

650
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,960
And so it's not about me and,
and, and I think that's an

651
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:44,320
interesting growth that you go
through in the beginning, but I

652
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:46,640
forgot what your first, what the
actual question was.

653
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,440
I mean, you, you've covered it
that, that it's more rewarding

654
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:53,640
delivering that you know you are
essentially, even though what

655
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,520
you know you're doing is as a
magician, you are delivering

656
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,360
that feeling that magic exists
in the world.

657
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,680
You could draw a connection
between it and say that world of

658
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,920
of professional wrestling where
if you kind of suspend disbelief

659
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,880
just to enjoy it for what it is,
you can get it.

660
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,680
Although I think you know what
you do is is on another level

661
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,040
compared to say professional
wrestling, but there is

662
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,000
parallels there.
Yeah, there is, there's

663
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,960
parallels.
For sure between, yes, I am a

664
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:26,320
fully grown adult, I know that
it is, it is a trick or it is

665
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,840
kind of rehearsed or something.
But yeah, being able to just

666
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,720
kind of compartmentalise that
and enjoy it for what it is

667
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:38,600
almost comes full circle all the
way back to, you know, 100 years

668
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,720
ago where people were forced to
just enjoy it for what it was,

669
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,560
which was that entertainment,
which is, which is a very ironic

670
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:50,080
thing that, you know, as
technology and access to digital

671
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:54,360
means has just permeated through
everything, It almost generates

672
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,920
that traditional wonderment back
again by the nature of everyone

673
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,800
being so used to seeing things
that are as they seem online.

674
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,120
So when you're right, right, you
know, you're seeing it in the

675
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,240
world, you're like, Oh my God,
you know, magic does exist.

676
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,360
And yes.
Yeah, and it becomes quite.

677
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,680
It's very powerful, especially
live, because again, I go back

678
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:19,520
to online or on television and
I'm very conscious of this.

679
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,040
You can sometimes justify it.
Like you'd say, that's an actor

680
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,160
that's set up, that's not real.
If I was there, I would know how

681
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:27,440
it's done.
Then you come and watch the live

682
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:32,800
show and you go, huh, well, that
person's not set up because

683
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,320
that's my brother.
So that's not set up.

684
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,960
How did he know that?
Or I can't see any strings.

685
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:39,400
I thought they levitated with
strings.

686
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:40,800
I don't see any strings.
Do you see any strings?

687
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:42,240
I don't see any strings.
So all of a sudden you start

688
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,040
getting sucked into it the same
way when you go watch a concert

689
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,400
or a sporting match.
It's great watching it on TV.

690
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:48,680
To some degree on TV it's
better.

691
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:50,360
Like you can see the
commentators explaining

692
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,160
everything about the sporting
match and you can see everything

693
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,080
really clearly.
But what a difference when

694
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:57,960
you're in the actual event and
there's that that energy around

695
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,760
you.
So the magic show is 100% works

696
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:02,440
on that.
And I going back to what you

697
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,160
said earlier, I'll just never
understand the idea.

698
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:09,520
But by exposing magic for the
sake of exposing it, as he said,

699
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,960
because it's like running around
kind of saying, hey, Christmas

700
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:14,320
is coming up, guys.
And guess what?

701
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,880
You know, Santa's not real.
Like, what does that do for you?

702
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:18,719
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.

703
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,719
Like, I'm not really sure what,
like all you've done is kind of

704
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:26,120
like killed some fucking kids.
Like, you know, they decide, oh,

705
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:27,719
really?
Like they'll find that in their

706
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:29,440
own time.
You know, where the Santa is

707
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,360
real or not real.
And you know what?

708
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:33,880
What a beautiful thing to
imagine.

709
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,080
Like, like, you know, when you
first fanned out.

710
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,239
I hope there's not too many
children like watching this.

711
00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:42,440
You know, when you first found
out you were kind of weren't you

712
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,040
disappointed?
I know I was.

713
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,000
I was, of course.
Oh, really?

714
00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:47,760
I remember that.
Sucks.

715
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,520
Some kid told me I was in like
grade 2 and, and I didn't want

716
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:53,600
to believe it.
You know, I was just like, I

717
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:55,920
held on for, you know, a couple
of days longer.

718
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,080
And then I think someone else
told me and, and then I probably

719
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:00,760
asked my parents.
And so, you know, like

720
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,160
destroying someone's belief in
something just to do it and, and

721
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:06,960
show how clever you are.
Yeah.

722
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,240
And, and I'll tell you something
else that's interesting too.

723
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,840
I, from my own experience, and
again, other people may have a

724
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:17,080
different experience.
I have found that when I, I'm

725
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:21,320
not trying to insult anyone,
when I have performed for highly

726
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:25,200
intellectual people, I always
find, I always used to think, oh

727
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:27,760
man, they're going to dissect
it, they're going to debunk it,

728
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:29,920
They're going to try.
And, and this has happened.

729
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,960
And I, I performed at
conferences with, with surgeons

730
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,040
and I thought, this is going to
be a tough gig.

731
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,280
This is going to be really,
really challenging.

732
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:43,320
And they're the ones that are
the most kind of immersed in it.

733
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,400
And they see every nuance and
they go, wow, Now how you said

734
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,480
this and how you said that, and
I don't know, maybe it's because

735
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:52,080
they're more, maybe they can
just see it more clearly as

736
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,160
opposed to sometimes performing
for an audience that maybe they

737
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,000
don't have that same outlook.
They're not, not as maybe

738
00:35:58,000 --> 00:35:59,520
they're as worldly.
I'm not sure what it is.

739
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:03,440
Then they're the ones that seem
to feel like you are attacked,

740
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:07,600
attacking their intelligence.
And therefore, yes, and

741
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:09,560
therefore they kind of go, well,
I I know how you did that.

742
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:11,040
That's that stuff like this.
Yeah.

743
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:12,720
Most of the times they're wrong,
to be honest.

744
00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:14,720
That's a.
Really interesting point there

745
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:20,120
that they are feeling that, yes,
it's a magic trick, but maybe

746
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,560
they're seeing it as you
tricking them like they're a

747
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:28,760
fool as opposed to, you know,
the sleight of hand or wow, how

748
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:30,520
did they did that?
Yeah, that's, that's

749
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:32,160
interesting.
And I think that that's

750
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:36,600
obviously the people with that
focus and that approach to, to

751
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,160
being an audience or an observer
is obviously one of the, the

752
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,840
downsides that's much more
prevalent through, you know,

753
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:47,560
the, the, the proliferation of,
of digital access and, and the

754
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:51,040
Internet through the industry.
But everything that you've said

755
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,840
as well, it sounds like there's
so many positives that have

756
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:58,520
seen, you know, the craft, you
know the industry itself and and

757
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,480
you know, the whole world of
magic and illusion grow and

758
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,560
expand into new and exciting
ways, which is obviously

759
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,560
fantastic.
That said, what would you say

760
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:12,560
the biggest positive of
technology and and magic

761
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,440
colliding has been?
OK, so from my perspective,

762
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,600
there'd be two things.
It would be like the other day I

763
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,960
had, I had someone in Vegas
email me and say, Hey, we're

764
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:24,320
looking at doing this particular
gig.

765
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,600
Can you do AB And CI was like,
Yep, cool.

766
00:37:26,720 --> 00:37:28,400
Boom, send them the video
straight away.

767
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:30,480
Done.
Like it's just that quick.

768
00:37:30,720 --> 00:37:32,920
And they go, wow, yes, you made
a helicopter appear.

769
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,480
You did this, you did that.
And like the, the, the, the

770
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:39,240
communication is just so quick
and it's so like, and they can

771
00:37:39,240 --> 00:37:42,560
see what you do straight away.
And so things move much more

772
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:43,800
quickly.
Another thing that's really

773
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:47,240
interesting pictures, like when
I do international TV pictures,

774
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,800
local pictures, but Interstate,
we do it like this.

775
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,360
And, and so it's kind of, I used
to have to get on an aeroplane,

776
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:58,760
fly to Sydney, going to the
studio, sit down at the board,

777
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,320
you know, like it was, it was,
it was very, you know, it was

778
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:02,560
cumbersome.
It was, there was a lot

779
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:03,960
involved.
So little things.

780
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,040
I just think of other things
like little things like that.

781
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:08,520
You know, the international TV
shows have aired in 22

782
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,280
countries.
I can talk to all those

783
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:12,640
different countries, Vietnam,
Philippines, Indonesia, like

784
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:13,880
this.
Yeah, yeah.

785
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,440
All that work and promotion is
like a benefit to me.

786
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,200
Then there's obviously the
technological side that works to

787
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,920
make magic more, more magical is
the best way to put it.

788
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:27,120
And the other thing that I love
is in my show, we incorporate a

789
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:31,560
lot of AV content and screens.
So what I do now is I have a

790
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:33,400
roving camera.
I've been doing this for a long,

791
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,880
long time, but I have a roving
camera with me the whole time.

792
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,480
Not like in a concert where you
know you're seeing the

793
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,360
performances from so far away
that they're on the screen so

794
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:42,640
you can watch them sing.
No, no, no.

795
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,800
What I mean is like, I want to
show you a particular apparatus.

796
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,240
I say I bring the camera in,
have a look at the trunk, have a

797
00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:49,440
look inside.
It's completely empty.

798
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:50,320
Yes.
Is it solid?

799
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:51,600
Look, I'll show you that it's
solid.

800
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,000
Great.
So I'm proving to the audience

801
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,440
that this is real.
I'm about to do this crazy death

802
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,480
defying escape.
You know, look at the tank.

803
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:00,120
It's a Perspex tank.
It's solid.

804
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,080
Look at the glass lid, that's
solid.

805
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:03,800
Look at the steel bars.
Look, they're solid.

806
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,120
So the audience, even though
they're sitting there, they

807
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,120
really get brought in and you
get to prove everything.

808
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:13,080
That to me has enhanced the
magic and I've I've really

809
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:17,400
embraced that because using that
kind of technology, I don't

810
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,840
know, just it, it just makes it
more immersive.

811
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,680
It's probably the word I'm
looking for, not just so like

812
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:27,320
I'm sitting there and that's.
The show, yeah, that's, that's

813
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:32,000
quite insightful that point
there around involving that

814
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,920
technology and giving people
that close up look like once

815
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:39,360
they can see actually there is
where are the hidden wires or

816
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:41,280
where, I don't know, I don't
know the kind of things they're

817
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:45,000
expecting to see.
But once they can see that it's

818
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,480
not there through getting that
close up view, it almost turns

819
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:53,800
the magic back up rather than,
you know, letting them peek

820
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,200
behind the curtains.
So to see, oh, OK, how it's

821
00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:00,360
done, that's not something that
I'd I'd thought about.

822
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,520
So that's very interesting to
hear that giving people access

823
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:08,200
through technology can almost
baffle and bewilder them even

824
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:08,600
more.
And.

825
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:14,640
And what we also do is before a
big escape, I have a pre filmed

826
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,800
content that I explain, this is
the escape.

827
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:19,760
These are the locks, these are
the handcuffs, these are the

828
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,120
chains.
And all of that is like a little

829
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,680
kind of build up to what I'm
about to do again, to prove that

830
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:29,520
what I'm doing is real.
So without it, I then

831
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,960
traditionally have to do it on
stage, bring somebody up and it,

832
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:35,120
it can kind of slow the pace a
little bit.

833
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:38,680
So by having it in a video
packaged up quite neat and tidy

834
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:40,840
it, it kind of sets the audience
up for now.

835
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:42,520
This, this thing that's about to
happen.

836
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,520
Instead of watching the screens,
the curtains shut and then the

837
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:47,280
video finishes.
They now know what's going to

838
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:47,920
happen.
They know.

839
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:51,280
They know what the challenge is.
The kernel flies out and we're

840
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,520
ready to go.
So it's just working out ways to

841
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,840
incorporate it to enhance what
we're doing as opposed to taking

842
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,960
taking away.
And that's, that's, I think a

843
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,320
perfect summation there, the
kind of workflow.

844
00:41:04,720 --> 00:41:07,600
And you said something a couple
of minutes ago around you're

845
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:12,320
able to leverage technology to
instantly pitch ideas all over

846
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:15,160
the world and, and communicate
like that, which I would imagine

847
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:19,320
frees up so much more time to
focus on developing the

848
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,440
entertainment as well.
What's one piece of advice you

849
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:26,840
would give to anybody interested
in in getting involved and, you

850
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,040
know, thinking they, they don't
know where to start.

851
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,880
They're intrigued by what
they've perhaps seen online and

852
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:35,320
want to learn how that they can,
you know, start performing for

853
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:37,040
themselves.
What's one piece of advice that

854
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:37,600
you would?
Give that.

855
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:42,680
Let me see.
Oh, there's so much that I

856
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,160
would.
Let's say 3 pieces then.

857
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:51,360
OK, I look, I think it's really
good to learn magic online

858
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:55,160
because you can visually watch
it and you can mimic, and that

859
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:57,240
makes the process of learning
much easier.

860
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,360
But then there's a point where I
think you should try and get a

861
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:04,320
book and learn from the book.
Because once you understand

862
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:06,600
magic a little bit and the
mechanics and how things are

863
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:11,120
supposed to be, learning from a
book forces you to really

864
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:16,000
analyse what the trick is about,
where all the little mistakes

865
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:19,840
can kind of happen.
And then you're forced to take

866
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,560
what's on the page and go, OK,
so I've got this card trick.

867
00:42:22,720 --> 00:42:24,600
What do I do with it now?
What do I do?

868
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:25,760
I do.
I tell a story.

869
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:29,720
Do I talk about my grandfather
giving me this deck of cards?

870
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:31,920
Is it?
Did I learn it from a famous

871
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,440
magician?
You start thinking, like, all of

872
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:35,560
a sudden you got to start
thinking.

873
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:37,640
When you watch it online, you
just go, oh, cool.

874
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:39,800
OK, so there you just end up
copying it.

875
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:43,040
And So what you end up with is
many of the same people kind of

876
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:46,040
doing the same effect, the same
way with the same personality.

877
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:52,080
And so if you're quite sincere
about being a magician, then at

878
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:56,040
some point you'll you're going
to want to learn to develop your

879
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:59,360
own kind of style and your own
approach.

880
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:04,760
And you can only do that by
almost shutting off what

881
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,120
everybody else is doing.
That's definitely what I did

882
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:09,560
when I was growing up.
I was influenced by lots of

883
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:10,920
people and said, you're kind of
afraid to see all these

884
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:12,880
wonderful people.
David Copperfield Houdini.

885
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:14,880
But then there's a point where
you kind of got to shuttle that

886
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,960
away and try and find your own
style.

887
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:21,200
And now it's just so much harder
online because you're just

888
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:23,240
constantly watching how other
people do it, other people do

889
00:43:23,240 --> 00:43:24,680
it.
And so you kind of just, well,

890
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:27,640
that's the way you do it and,
and you'll do it well.

891
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:30,240
But if you learn it from a book,
you'll then be forced to do it

892
00:43:30,240 --> 00:43:31,840
to an audience.
Let's say you do it to your

893
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,960
parents and you go, oh, that
didn't work, Mum didn't respond.

894
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:36,720
Then all of a sudden you think
about it, why didn't mum

895
00:43:36,720 --> 00:43:38,800
respond?
And you start to analyse the

896
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:40,400
effect more.
It ends up being a little more

897
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:42,440
challenging and you have to put
more time into it.

898
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,880
If you really are interested in
pursuing the art form, if you

899
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,320
just want to learn a trick, I
think it's just good to, you

900
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:50,520
know, it's great to do it online
or learn from a video.

901
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:52,760
It just depends where you want
to go with it or what you want

902
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,080
to do.
So my advice, I guess, is learn

903
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:58,440
your trick online and then at
some point learn from books.

904
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:00,400
Like honestly, really learn from
books.

905
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,720
The trick is only one aspect,
the storytelling, the

906
00:44:03,720 --> 00:44:05,360
presentation, the showmanship is
another.

907
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:08,840
That would be my, my, my advice.
And I would say if you want to

908
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:14,280
be a great magician, you have to
love the process of practise and

909
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:17,400
rehearsal.
If you don't, I don't know, you

910
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:19,640
can be that good.
So you can't just love.

911
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:23,360
You can't just love that result.
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense

912
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:26,400
that like everything, you know,
you get out of it kind of what

913
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:28,160
you put in.
And you, you said something

914
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:31,200
there too, which is exactly what
I was thinking, that developing

915
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:34,400
your own storytelling to build
that, as you mentioned earlier,

916
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,200
emotional connection is what
really is going to make someone

917
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:38,920
kind of stand out on on their
own.

918
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:41,920
But Speaking of storytelling,
tell us what you've got coming

919
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,640
up, and then how can people
follow what you're up to?

920
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:49,320
Yes, I've got a brand new tour.
We've called it tricked.

921
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,080
Why?
Because it's a bit of a play on,

922
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:54,200
you know, people always think
you you're coming out there to

923
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:55,760
try and trick them.
And obviously the way my

924
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:57,240
approach is that I'm not really
there.

925
00:44:57,240 --> 00:44:59,920
I'm not trying to fool you.
I'm not trying to prove that I'm

926
00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:02,000
so much more intelligent than
you are.

927
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,240
That's not the idea at all.
And it's a brand new tour, new

928
00:45:05,240 --> 00:45:07,960
illusions, new escapes, new
close ups, slide of hammaging, a

929
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:13,600
lot of technology involved all
this AV content, LED screen.

930
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,240
So we can explain, you know, do
what I was explaining to you

931
00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:19,400
earlier, like show things on
camera, lots of close up work,

932
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:22,720
lots of interaction with the
audience, very immersive.

933
00:45:23,240 --> 00:45:25,720
And I'm touring, it's starting
to tour all around the country.

934
00:45:25,720 --> 00:45:28,280
So people can find out by going
to my website

935
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:34,080
cosentino.com.eusoitscosentino.com
dot AU all all my socials, which

936
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,280
is the Cosentino on all
platforms.

937
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,120
Awesome, Cosantino, thank you so
much for joining us.

938
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:42,200
My pleasure, thank you for
having me.

939
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:45,440
For more info on what we've
discussed today, check out the

940
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:47,400
show notes.
If you enjoyed this one, you can

941
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:49,560
subscribe to Ruined by the
Internet on your favourite

942
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:52,680
podcast app and help spread the
word by sharing this episode or

943
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:55,320
leaving a review.
I'm Gareth King, see you next

944
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:55,560
time.