Has the internet ruined Video Games? – Steve Wright

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Welcome to Ruined by the
Internet.

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I'm Gareth King.
Today we're asking, has the

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Internet ruined video games?
Through predatory monetization,

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rush development and profits
over player enjoyment, has the

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joy and escapism of video games
been lost?

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To give us a walkthrough, we're
joined by Steve Wright, owner

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and editor in
chiefofsurvivor.com, Australia's

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leading independent video games
outlet.

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Steve, thank you so much for
joining us and welcome to the

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show.
Thanks for having me, pleasure

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to be here.
Before we get into it, can you

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tell us a bit about what you do
and the journey that led you to

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this point?
Yeah, and it's a journey that

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led me to this country, I guess
too.

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I grew up in Saskatoon, SK
Canada, which is in the middle

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of nowhere.
It's a lovely place.

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Definitely go visit.
You'll see everything that you

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need to see in a day and then go
to better places in Canada like

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Toronto or Vancouver or
whatever.

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Anyway, I, I moved here, well, I
didn't realise I was moving

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here, but I, I arrived here in
2001 and had the intention of,

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of staying for a three month
working holiday that blew out to

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a year, which was the maximum
allowed at the time.

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Apparently it's more now I'm,
I'm old and decided to stay.

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I went, I went back home for a
year, I think 2003 or so to, to

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finish off my degree, but became
a permanent resident and a

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citizen.
And, and my little travel blogs

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to vivor.com, which was meant
to, you know, my mom could click

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on the Big Blue E on her
computer desktop and realise I

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was still alive.
Like it.

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It didn't have to be that
anymore.

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And it evolved into basically
just something that I would

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throw up whatever I wanted
originally and then kind of

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evolved into and outlet for me
to do video games journalism.

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And it's kind of gone like that
ever since.

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We, we really kind of put the
focus on video games in about

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2009, I believe.
And since then we've got writers

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coming in.
I can Commission writers and pay

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writers to do video games
journalism.

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And it's, it's a really fun
thing for me to do.

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It's, it's, it's like a hobby
with the video games, obviously.

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And it's it's my creative outlet
in terms of journalism.

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And I never thought I would be
doing it.

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And I probably would have picked
a different name for the website

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if I knew I'd end up where I
was.

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Yeah, well, so look, you know,
you said you you made the switch

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to focus on video games in 2009.
Having been covering games for

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so long now, did you ever expect
the Internet to kind of involve

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itself and change the industry
as drastically as it has?

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And what surprised you the most?
Well, like, I guess a lot of

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things that I do, I kind of owe
to the Internet.

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I met my husband on the Internet
via via an app that you probably

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know of if if you know, you
know, and because I was doing

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video games journalism via the
Internet, I'm old school, but

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I'm not old school enough to
have written for like Hyper

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magazine or anything like that.
So in terms of my specific

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journey, the internet's always
been there.

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So I think it's a good thing in
most cases.

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But of course there's, there's
things in recent years maybe,

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or, you know, maybe the last 10
years or so that, that maybe

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aren't as ideal as they used to
be.

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But you know, like everything,
I, I made friend groups through

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the Internet this So it's, I'm
speaking very generally, of

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course, not not about video
games per SE, but there's a lot

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of good the Internet does.
And in terms of video games and

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video game journalism, like
it's, it's really simple things

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like when we first started and
you couldn't get parcels, you

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know, left on your doorstop,
Like if you missed your, your

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delivery, you missed your
delivery.

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And when I was first going out
to EAI, think they, they were

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one of the first publishers that
gave me early access game or not

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early access games, pre release
games, I should say.

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They'd send them by the post and
it probably be registered post.

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And you had to make sure you
were at the door to collect the

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disc, which had all the, you
know, promotional use only, not

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for resale, all that kind of
stuff because you didn't want

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games to leak.
That was a bit of a pain.

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And then with the Internet, it's
like, oh, OK, well, here's the

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code, plug it in, download and
away you go.

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So it's, yeah, there's it's,
there's good and bad.

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And I guess we're going to get
into that, aren't we?

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Yeah, absolutely.
And in terms of, you know, I

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think we can all agree that the
Internet's got kind of good and

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bad no matter what we're looking
at it in the context of.

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But just on that that point,
obviously it's been super

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beneficial for you in a personal
sense and in your journalism

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sense.
How do you think it's gone in

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terms of the effect on games
themselves?

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Well, probably the elephant in
the room is people talking about

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the Internet and video games.
It's all, you know, like

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everything's a game as a service
now.

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And if you're not familiar with
that term, let's just shortcut

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it to Fortnite.
Everyone's heard of Fortnite,

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love it or hate it, free to
play.

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So theoretically you can
download it and jump in, but

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there's season passes and
microtransactions and all these

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kind of devious ways to, to try
to get you to to spend your hard

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earned.
And he, we could probably spend

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two weeks on this.
But you know, for everyone who

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doesn't spend any money, jumps
in plays as the default skin

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really likes, you know,
Fortnite's battle Royale

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experience, There's someone who
feels the need to buy every

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single skin.
They've got the Darth Vader,

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they've got the Master Chief,
they've got all the Star Wars

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characters, etcetera.
And spend more than they are

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generally willing to spend in
worst cases.

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Or you know, that the smart ones
budget a set amount and, and

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spend that money.
There are a lot of current games

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or upcoming games.
There's a there's a trend of

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that style of kind of design and
philosophy, but I guess on the

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positive, Sony's a really good
example of really trying to

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leverage this game as a service
methodology.

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They acquired a a company called
Bungie and Destiny is is the

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really big title of the moment.
It's it used to be how much

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history do you want in its
current model?

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It's free to play and has that
kind of spend more money, play

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forever, never leave us, keep
keep giving us money.

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And it it interested Sony so
much that they acquired Bungie

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and they were kind of infusing
that methodology and, and

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greenlit several games as a
service.

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And most of those have either
come out and have flopped or

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have been cancelled.
So I guess that's the silver

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lining.
Yeah, it it looks kind of bleak,

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but I think consumers can fight
back or, or choose not to engage

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in in some of these things, so.
Yeah, look, that's, that's a

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good point around the the
consumer themselves, because one

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of the things that I've seen
looking into this topic is a lot

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of discourse and chatter to me,
even as an outsider around the

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games as a service Model 1
Extreme is fully into it, as you

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said.
But then at the other end of the

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spectrum, it is somewhat kind of
gambling and and addictive in a

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way.
And I guess we've all seen those

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news stories and beyond video
games, you know, like some kid

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has picked up their parents
phone or whatever and and spent

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all this money in like the App
Store or whatever.

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So it's all sorts of financial
implications, good and bad

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around the games as a service
model.

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But beyond that financial
aspect, what impact has games as

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a service had on the types of
games or experiences that

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players seek out and enjoy these
days?

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Well, and so without the
financial stuff and, and not

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worrying about some of the
really, it is horrific some of

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the stuff that you do here.
Destiny's a good example of a

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game that people enjoy and find
friendship with.

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I, we've, we've since broken up
our, our Guild, but we, we were

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a group of like 6 or 7 people
that would just change in and

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out and play together.
And it was more about getting on

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a microphone and having a catch
up then it was, you know, like,

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oh, take, take that corridor to
the right and like eyes up like

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we weren't being, we weren't
being very efficient.

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So you can with games and it
doesn't have to be like games as

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a service, but like there are
people who who build

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communities, who find
friendships, who just find the

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engagement that they want
through a game.

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And you know, like not a game as
a service, but Gears of War

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Reloaded came out recently.
My best friend used to live in

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Melbourne.
He since moved back to Adelaide.

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But Gears allowed for or allows
for split screen Co op.

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So theoretically we could have,
you know, if he was still in

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Melbourne, sat on the couch and
played through Gears of War and

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and basically just chit chatted
the whole time and just had a

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really good time playing
together so.

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That's that's a good point
around the Co op thing.

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You know, I think back to my
best memories playing video

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games I used to love like Mario
Kart and you know, like those,

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those kind of games, getting all
your mates around.

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You're sitting on on the couch
and everyone's just having a

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bash and just passing the
controller and everyone's

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looking at the one little screen
that you're you're playing on.

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What's happened to games that
encourage could all be sitting

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in the same place and playing
together?

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Are they still made or is that
being, I guess, made way for

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games where as you said, people
can can dial in remotely, throw

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in a headset and then kind of
socialise through video games

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that way?
So like, I'm speaking generally,

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probably at most times, but
generally speaking, I guess

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games don't allow for Co op
split screen as much as they

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used to.
Because I, I think it's fair to

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say that a developer is trying
to get so much out of the

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hardware, like the Xbox or the
PlayStation or whatever that you

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have that you're playing on,
that they want to dedicate all

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of the processing to your
experience.

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And if they have to basically,
you know, create 2 versions of

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the same experience on the one
screen, that's, I think that's

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why there's a lean away from
that kind of experience.

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I guess that's not really
internets fault, that's just

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kind of maybe hardware
inefficiencies, but there are a

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lot of games that like are meant
for coop experiences.

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And it's like, let's not talk
about Covad too long.

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But I, I got my families like my
family in Canada and my family

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in law here in Australia hooked
on Jack Box games.

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I remember as a kid playing You
Don't Know Jack and that's it's

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maybe a Canadian, a North
American experience more than an

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Australian one.
So sorry if I've lost all of our

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locals.
But a Jackbox game is, is meant

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for multiple players.
And in the old days with You

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don't Know Jack, you were, you
know, a family of, of four

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trying to cram around your
keyboard.

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And my buzzer was A and my dad's
buzzer was L.

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And anyway, and it was a quiz
show and all you need is is

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something to play it on, like to
display it on like APC, console,

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whatever.
But everyone uses their phone as

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their controllers.
So it worked really well on

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Zoom, like broadcasting for my
computer because people could

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just use their phones in their
home.

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And I guess the Internet is
inherently built into that

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because you need the servers to
be able to dial into to get the

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controllers working on your
phone.

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One of the things you mentioned
a couple of minutes ago was

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around the, the developers focus
on the, the individual

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experience rather than trying to
build something for multiple

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people in, you know, one place.
They can kind of build 1 huge

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thing for multiple places.
One of my pet peeves around like

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downloadable stuff with games is
like, you know, I'm not like a

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massive game.
I've got a Xbox, I've got a

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bunch of games that I love
playing on it, but I don't play

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it very often.
And every time I switch it on,

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it's got you know, 30 gigabytes
of stuff that I just need to

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download.
And so by the time that that

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downloads, I'm, I kind of over
it.

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I don't want, I don't want to
like even sit and play it

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anymore.
So I've lost that kind of itch.

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00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:35,640
But with file sizes like that,
with the games, clearly that

224
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this, the Internet connectivity
allows for massive exploratory

225
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worlds where you can just find
joy in looking around and, and

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discovering rather than just
that completion or winning.

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Has this changed the way that
games are created, rather than

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needing just a linear narrative?
Does it, does it bring more

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consideration into, I guess, the
storytelling and the world's

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themselves rather than the
objective?

231
00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,680
That's a good question.
And there's there's so many

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different games like I don't
think there is really an answer.

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00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,560
It's it's are you, are you a
walking simulator?

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00:12:10,560 --> 00:12:14,320
Are you a cosy game?
Is, is the the terminology for

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like a like a Stardew Valley
where or a harvest moon where

236
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you're just kind of going and
tending to a farm.

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00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,400
I know Animal Crossing was very
big in a pandemic.

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My husband loved it.
I just I never saw the appeal of

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00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:30,000
going through everyday mundane
chores, but.

240
00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:33,640
Yeah, it was, it was crazy.
I never seen people, you know,

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00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:35,440
like you're saying, I'm I'm
playing Animal Crossing.

242
00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:37,280
I've just caught this fish.
Look at this.

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00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,280
And I didn't get it, but it
seemed very cute.

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00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,560
You know, I'm sure there was
some kind of like nice feeling

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00:12:43,560 --> 00:12:47,560
and and positive rewards come
out of that, which was in a very

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00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,640
shit time.
Yeah, well, like, I'm a huge

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Resident Evil fan and one of
like my first likes.

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I had a NES growing up.
I'm 43, I'm old.

249
00:12:57,800 --> 00:12:59,960
I'm. 44 so.
There you go.

250
00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:02,120
Did you have an NES as well?
Maybe?

251
00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:03,880
Absolutely did.
There you go.

252
00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:08,200
And we moved to a Sega Genesis
for the for the next Gen, which

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00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:11,600
I can't ever remember if it's
Mega Drive or Master System.

254
00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:15,920
And I remember one year I got a
new Sonic game for my parents

255
00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:19,280
and I like cracked the sads.
I was just like, oh, beside

256
00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:22,000
myself because the PlayStation
was out and I kicked and

257
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,480
screamed and threw a tantrum to
get a PlayStation.

258
00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,240
My parents took all the stuff
that they had for the Sega

259
00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,160
Genesis and all the games and
traded it in and let me buy a

260
00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:32,360
PlayStation.
But they like, this is their

261
00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:34,400
like the best parenting move
they ever did.

262
00:13:34,680 --> 00:13:36,120
They went, here's the
PlayStation.

263
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You don't get a game if you, if
you have money, you can buy one.

264
00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:41,360
I did not have money.
So I played the demo disc for

265
00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:43,600
that PlayStation for like a
solid 3 months.

266
00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:48,560
But thankfully my friend down
the road, his parents got him

267
00:13:48,560 --> 00:13:50,600
like every game system that
never came out, any game you

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00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:52,720
wanted.
So like most days after school,

269
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we would go to his house and
like that's where I played the

270
00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:57,080
first Resident Evil.
That's where I started to play

271
00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:59,320
the second Resident Evil and
then eventually had enough money

272
00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:02,400
to buy my own copy.
And I've loved that game and

273
00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:06,080
that franchise for the, it's
what, nearing 30 years that it's

274
00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:07,600
been out.
Resident Evil is a really good

275
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:09,800
example of, you know, like
trying to tap into something

276
00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:13,720
that Resident Evil is not.
So every couple of years they

277
00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:18,640
try to do a multiplayer focused
game that's usually like packed

278
00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,560
into one of the the sequels and
people play it for like 20

279
00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:24,880
minutes and go, this is not what
I'm after.

280
00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:27,200
It's just the old it's oh,
they're trying to capture that

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00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,080
games as a service thing where
like I could buy a skin or this

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00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:31,840
on the other.
And so like, I think they're

283
00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,840
kind of failing in that regard.
But like it's, it's always a

284
00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:38,040
side project with the main game.
And going back to what you were

285
00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:40,720
saying about file sizes and all
that, it's I don't know if it's

286
00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,360
an Internet thing.
It's more of like a late stage

287
00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:48,560
capitalism where, yeah, it's
like how fast can we get this

288
00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:49,760
out?
We said the release date was

289
00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:51,880
this.
We, we need the game to come out

290
00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,320
for this quarter or it's going
to ruin our sales, which is

291
00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,760
going to ruin our stock up.
So all of that factors in and

292
00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:02,080
things are probably released in
a rushed sense or an inefficient

293
00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:05,360
sense where files could be
compressed or condensed or more

294
00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:07,000
efficient.
So you'd have less of a

295
00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,240
download.
And I guess the the the factor

296
00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:11,640
of the Internet there is.
Yeah, we'll just, we'll do a

297
00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:12,360
patch.
We'll do it.

298
00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:14,000
We'll do a patch here.
We'll fix this thing there,

299
00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,000
which I don't think is a good
thing, but I guess conversely I

300
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,600
there were games that I used to
play back in the day that you

301
00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,800
know, didn't ever have the
chance to be patched and if

302
00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,720
something was broken, one of
those it was broken forever, so.

303
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:29,000
That's kind of leads me onto my
next question there.

304
00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:32,840
Now we're talking about breaking
and patches and fixing things up

305
00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:34,880
post launch.
Another thing that, you know,

306
00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:39,000
I've seen a lot of complaints
around was that people are so

307
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:42,120
stoked to get a thing as soon as
it launches and then there's

308
00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:45,240
something gone wrong with it.
So beyond I guess having to to

309
00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:49,360
issue a patch to a game just so
people can play it, what other

310
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:54,760
issues has the ability for
developers to rush something out

311
00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:58,160
without it being ultimately
quality controlled and just

312
00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:01,920
ready to to play smoothly?
Video games are huge, like

313
00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:06,520
bigger than movies huge and
people maybe don't remember that

314
00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:09,000
or aren't exposed to it, so they
don't think of that.

315
00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,080
Sometimes it like it's it's not
an issue of someone trying to

316
00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,440
rush something.
It it becomes a matter of they

317
00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,200
have a team of, I don't know,
we'll say four or five for the

318
00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:21,120
sake of it.
Who are, you know, playing the

319
00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:23,480
game everyday, testing it,
trying to find all these bugs

320
00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:25,520
and problems.
But you know, as soon as you

321
00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:29,480
release your game to potentially
millions of people, you suddenly

322
00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,240
have millions of testers and
they're going to hit every

323
00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:34,720
scenario, every possible
combination of how things can be

324
00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:39,000
done and find things that
developers simply can't.

325
00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:42,880
So I guess on on the, the plus
side there, as we're

326
00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,280
collectively doing this work for
them, we are finding issues, but

327
00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:48,120
then there is the ability for
those issues to be fixed.

328
00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:50,960
So that's a good thing.
I, I don't know if you can

329
00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,400
really fully fix that issue.
Like it's just, it's really just

330
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,880
a term, a matter of scale.
There's so many people that are

331
00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,440
hitting up your game.
They're absolutely going to

332
00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:02,160
encounter things that you
haven't anticipated or you know,

333
00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,240
you you maybe didn't thought you
fixed it, but you know you did A

334
00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:08,280
and they did B and it's causing
those issues.

335
00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,640
Yeah, yeah, Our younger brother,
he's like, he's like quite into

336
00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:13,920
games.
Every time I see him, he's

337
00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,200
bought.
He's basically, he's gone back

338
00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,240
and he's recollecting all the
old consoles and all the games

339
00:17:19,319 --> 00:17:21,960
and you know, they're like $2.00
to to buy these games now.

340
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,880
And he's like, look, I've got
this PS1 game for $1.00 and you

341
00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,440
know, all of this stuff.
But it's quite interesting that

342
00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:30,320
those are all done and dusted
when they're out.

343
00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:33,560
And I guess the complexity of
them is nothing like it is now.

344
00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,800
But doesn't the, I guess this
connection now between let's

345
00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:41,680
call them the players and the
producers, doesn't that provide

346
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:45,280
a kind of a real channel for
dialogue that may positively

347
00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:47,600
influence games as it goes over
time?

348
00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:51,920
Like, can developers collect
that feedback and based on, I

349
00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:56,360
guess the market sentiment,
change entire games to to keep

350
00:17:56,360 --> 00:17:58,800
it in I guess the good books of
of the market?

351
00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:05,160
For good and bad, I guess it it
depends on how how you perceive

352
00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:09,360
good and how a group forms and
what a group's intentions are.

353
00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,240
So like, a good example isn't
really related that I can think

354
00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,960
of immediately isn't really
related to games, but it's game

355
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:18,240
related.
Sonic the Hedgehog, the feature

356
00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:21,240
film, the first one that came
out, the designs for Sonic were

357
00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:22,840
nightmare inducing.
Oh.

358
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:25,960
That's I remember that now.
And the, and the, the, the

359
00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:29,000
general public kind of came
together and said, please,

360
00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,160
please, no, please change this.
And you know, that happened.

361
00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:36,680
Another example that people may
or may not see as good or bad is

362
00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:40,120
the ending to Mass Effect 3,
which I won't spoil, but the the

363
00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:43,680
gist of it is it was perceived
pretty much as a lacklustre

364
00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:46,480
ending.
So this Mass Effect franchise

365
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:50,640
was this huge franchise, an RPG
where you got to define your

366
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:54,480
character, make thousands and
thousands of choices and come to

367
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:58,720
very branching storylines.
And really, I don't envy BioWare

368
00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,240
having to try to take all of
those branching storylines over

369
00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:04,600
three games and then somehow
figure out how they could

370
00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:06,640
resolve them.
Because your, your experience

371
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:09,400
wasn't the same as mine, wasn't
the same as Bob's down the road,

372
00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:13,040
but they tried and and that was
their, their concluded piece of

373
00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:15,320
work, their arts, if you want to
consider it art.

374
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:19,360
And the community kind of went,
Nah, do better to fix it

375
00:19:19,360 --> 00:19:21,000
somehow.
And they kind of tried to fix

376
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,920
it, but I don't know, I think it
was maybe worse off for, for

377
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:24,600
trying.
Oh, wow.

378
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,320
And I guess right now, you know,
if I have heard the term woke

379
00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:35,160
again, it's it's one too many.
I have heard it applied.

380
00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,880
You know, like I say, I'm kind
of an outsider looking into the

381
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:44,240
world of, of video games, but I,
I do see quite a lot of furious

382
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,760
debate around characters you can
choose or their outfit and

383
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:49,840
things like that.
And without kind of going too

384
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:54,520
far down that path, it seems
like same as everything, there's

385
00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:58,000
a lot of outrage culture, you
know, it builds an entire

386
00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:01,560
ecosystem of, of negativity that
I, I would assume that the

387
00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:05,040
developers have not done it on
purpose to generate that

388
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:06,920
reaction.
Yeah, well, like, and I forget

389
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,080
the name of the Consulting
Group, which annoys me because I

390
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,080
would love to talk about them
because they they're they're

391
00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:16,000
basically a consulting firm that
developers will engage to think

392
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,440
about diversity in their games.
And and this is where like the

393
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:23,320
woke, you know, anti woke people
will come in and say, hey, no,

394
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:27,080
like that woman isn't as
attractive as she needs to be

395
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,000
and why are her breasts so small
and like this garbage?

396
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:32,840
And then on, like, on the flip
side, there's a Australian group

397
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:38,400
called Collective Shout, which
is now trying to target what

398
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,520
they perceive as inappropriate
games.

399
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:45,560
And the game that they latched
onto kind of successfully was a

400
00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:50,120
game about like, simulated rape.
And that is, yeah, that is not a

401
00:20:50,120 --> 00:20:52,480
game that anyone needs to play.
So they're not wrong in that

402
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:54,760
specific instance.
But now they're trying to, you

403
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,560
know, also say that, you know,
games involving transgender

404
00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:04,000
people or games with, you know,
consensual mature sex in them.

405
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,680
Like they, they have to be
removed from Steam and from all

406
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,400
these platforms and you know,
they're not my cup of tea in

407
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,760
most cases, but that's, it's not
for me to say what people can

408
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:14,880
and can't play and it shouldn't
be for Collective Shout either.

409
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,360
Yeah, Look, just just even on
that point, I guess we can we

410
00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:20,680
can take another a new direction
here.

411
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,720
I'm assuming that you would you
would generally have to be like

412
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,760
an indie developer to be to be
making that sort of stuff.

413
00:21:27,360 --> 00:21:32,680
But doesn't the ability for for
indie developers to make the

414
00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:37,120
smaller games that they want,
you know, they could say, look,

415
00:21:37,120 --> 00:21:40,240
we're making a game for 25
people, We don't care, we're

416
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,560
doing it and it's going to be
distributed through the

417
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,600
Internet.
Doesn't I guess the the Internet

418
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:49,080
as a now kind of a distribution
model breaks down what I assume

419
00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:54,040
would have been some pretty
standard gatekeeping in the past

420
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,840
from from bigger publishers.
Yep well, and, and that

421
00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:58,720
gatekeeping is is really still
there.

422
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,920
The likes of Nintendo and, and
Microsoft and Sony all have

423
00:22:02,360 --> 00:22:04,680
Nintendo's probably I don't want
to say the worst, but they're

424
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,280
probably the most strict on what
well and then for better or for

425
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:09,320
worse, we'll get into that in a
second.

426
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,400
But like they'll have guidelines
on what has to be done for a

427
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:14,120
game to be put on their
platform.

428
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,560
And a common thing you'll hear
with with games getting updates

429
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:21,160
or like expansions is that it's
slow through the Microsoft

430
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,920
certification process.
So that all sort of applies.

431
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,840
But on the flip side, Nintendo
also has this and all the

432
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:30,360
platforms have this issue where
gross clones of a game that

433
00:22:30,360 --> 00:22:34,960
actually is succeeding gets shot
out and put up on a Nintendo E

434
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:39,440
shop for 5 bucks and unknowing
people buy that instead of the

435
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:43,000
game they wanted.
But a lot of Indies will develop

436
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:48,040
and put their game out on Steam
or H dot IO and we'll be able to

437
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:51,560
tap into local funding schemes
and and that kind of thing.

438
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:53,960
Like PAX Australia is a really
good example.

439
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:58,800
Just for clarity, can you
explain quickly what Steam is

440
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,640
and also PAX?
PAX is the, the, the big event,

441
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:02,720
right?
So let's start with that.

442
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:03,960
Let me just throw out some
acronyms.

443
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:06,600
PAX, I don't think Pak stands
for anything.

444
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:08,240
Penny Arcade Expo.
Actually it does.

445
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,920
There we go.
It first started in Seattle and

446
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,880
it's it's a convention.
It used to be kind of like the

447
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,480
heavy hitters and some Indies
and it's really more like the

448
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:19,960
Indies now.
So it's a really good

449
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,880
opportunity to go and meet, you
know, the person or the team of

450
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,720
three or four who have developed
this game, play it, talk to them

451
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,240
about them, and then really get
to explore the indie scene.

452
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,200
And it's also a chance for
Indies to to be able to have

453
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,440
their game seen by a lot of
people.

454
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:41,400
Steam tied in is the the big
heavy hitter PC distribution

455
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,880
platform where you can purchase
and store your digital

456
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,000
collection of games.
There's other storefronts on PC

457
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,760
like the Epic game store.
Ubisoft has one, EA has one.

458
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,320
GOG, which stands for Good old
games is another.

459
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,840
I really like that all the kind
of old ones, all the old Star

460
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,880
Trek games that I love.
They're now, you know, preserved

461
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:05,760
on good old games, so I can play
them on my current PC without,

462
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,320
you know, digging out old
consoles, figuring out if they

463
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,440
need an adapter, you know,
because they don't have HDMI

464
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:13,840
ports or whatever.
Yeah, so.

465
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,920
That sounds, that sounds cool.
You know, and we've been talking

466
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,720
about the removal of that
gatekeeping, which almost just

467
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,760
lets anybody make the game that
they want.

468
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,640
You mentioned a couple of
minutes ago those games have

469
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,600
simulated whatever, which is the
the real dark side of of this

470
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,880
ability.
But on the positive side, how

471
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:38,360
has this ability for for anybody
to really make a game and get it

472
00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:42,120
out there kind of affected
building and creating new genres

473
00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:45,000
or innovations or and even
communities within the world of

474
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,760
video games?
There, if you have an idea for a

475
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:49,480
video game, it's probably
already happened.

476
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,840
If you have an idea for a genre,
it's probably already happened,

477
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:57,080
but there's not to say you can't
iterate on it or find a group

478
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:01,000
that that does like something
that you want to engage with and

479
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,480
do it.
And there's, you know, that's

480
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,480
I'm, I'm constantly proven wrong
in that generalisation.

481
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:08,240
There are people that have just
crazy ideas.

482
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,640
There's a game, it's not unique.
It's it's been done before, but

483
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,400
I'm excited for it.
It's called Baby steps and it's,

484
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,240
it's like a walking simulator.
When people say walking

485
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,440
simulator, they generally mean
you're controlling a character

486
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,600
and walking forward and looking
around and maybe solving a

487
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:25,520
mystery.
This is literally like you need

488
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,320
to use your controller to move
the person's legs and arms and

489
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,560
try to get them actually moving
through an environment.

490
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,040
Well, actually like a years ago
now I can't remember what it's

491
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:37,560
called.
I just call it QUOP or

492
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,360
something.
Exactly, exactly exactly like

493
00:25:40,360 --> 00:25:41,040
that.
Nightmare.

494
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:44,840
So, well, yeah.
And I, it's not my cup of tea,

495
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,720
but some people are sadists, I
guess, and like, like doing

496
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:48,760
that.
So good on them.

497
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,840
But yeah, like that's that's
interesting because I guess

498
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:56,160
beyond technical know how
nothing's stopping anyone coming

499
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,240
up with the idea and putting it
out into the world.

500
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,000
I remember a long, long time ago
speaking to someone that wanted

501
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,960
to get into video game
development and I knew somebody

502
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,680
else that was in it.
And when those two kind of spoke

503
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,520
about it, it just felt
incredibly daunting, like just

504
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:15,800
this massively long journey that
felt over before it even started

505
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,520
for a person 2.
But now that you've got so many

506
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,400
people, they can kind of dip
their toes in and and see what

507
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,240
happens.
As you said, going to one of

508
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,360
those events where you can speak
to the other developers, the

509
00:26:27,360 --> 00:26:30,480
little teams, and of course, who
knows what networking comes out

510
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,240
of that and who you meet, what
ideas might spawn off there.

511
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,720
And that's in real life.
But again, as you touched on a

512
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,840
couple of minutes ago, the that
kind of community and connection

513
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,280
through the Internet seems to be
enormous now in the world of

514
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,120
gaming.
What would you say, I guess the

515
00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:49,880
difference between a healthy
gaming community and we've all

516
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,880
heard of toxic ones.
Like even if you're not a gamer,

517
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,880
you hear about this like, how
does the Internet build both the

518
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,320
positive ones?
And then of course you know the

519
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,880
toxic ones.
But does it also blur the line

520
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:02,880
and and allow the shift between
the two?

521
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,840
It does like IIA game that I've
been playing lately called

522
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,400
Rematch is a decent example of
that.

523
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,600
It's it's a developer maybe
having a limitation to what they

524
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:16,120
can and can't do within their
game like voice chat etcetera.

525
00:27:17,120 --> 00:27:19,960
Or it's just a decision to to
limit some of that.

526
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:26,920
So rematch is A33V3 or 4V4 or
5V5 soccer game, football game

527
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:31,000
where you control 1 character,
you're in a team with others.

528
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,440
There's it's not AI bots or
anything like that.

529
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,680
You're playing with real people
and rather than give you the

530
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:39,480
ability to just scream
obscenities at your teammates if

531
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:44,200
you think they're not playing
very well, there's commands tied

532
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,680
to the D pad that will launch
like a voice clip like good job

533
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,720
or thanks.
And it's weird.

534
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,400
Like when you make a mistake,
good job is meant to be

535
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,960
uplifting, even though the sound
file doesn't change.

536
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:58,840
And it's exactly the same as if
you did something good.

537
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,600
Like if you make a mistake and
someone says good job, you know,

538
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,720
inherently the sarcasm is
dripping off that statement.

539
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:06,680
So it can be used for good or
bad.

540
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,920
But there's, there's kind of
ways to control some of that

541
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:10,480
stuff.
And then a lot of the control

542
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,640
really just sits with you as a
as a player.

543
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:19,680
Like my sister has kids who are
16 and 14 now, and the 16 year

544
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,360
old, her son Bob was playing
games and it's kind of like,

545
00:28:23,360 --> 00:28:25,640
yeah, just pop your head in once
in a while.

546
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,360
If he's playing like Rainbow 6
and there's voice chat, just

547
00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:31,560
make sure he's not getting
abused or abusing other people.

548
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,120
And you know, like, just remove
yourself from the situation if

549
00:28:34,120 --> 00:28:36,000
you need to.
It's, yeah, it's.

550
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,120
And that's kind of like the
Internet in general, Like, oh,

551
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,480
have you stumbled into a
welcoming place or is it

552
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,800
somewhere that you shouldn't be?
Absolutely.

553
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,200
And and that's so funny around
that, that good job.

554
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,520
The sarcasm behind that, which
is obviously that competition

555
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,000
aspect.
Like everyone associates the

556
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,000
word win with games, no matter
whether it's a board game, a

557
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,440
video game or like a sport game.
But in terms of that

558
00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:00,880
competition, one of the huge
things which which still blows

559
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:05,520
my mind that that come out of
competitive gaming is just this

560
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,600
phenomenon of E sports.
The first time somebody showed

561
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:12,240
it to me, I couldn't believe
what I was seeing like in these

562
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:16,400
gigantic arenas, people playing
games on a on a screen down

563
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:20,160
there.
And that to me felt crazy.

564
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,360
You know, I'm going to be
showing my age here too.

565
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:26,040
But I remember being a kid and
we used to have this toy shop in

566
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:27,480
Australia.
It's called World for Kids,

567
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,040
believe it or not.
And they would have like the

568
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,800
Super Nintendo sit up in there
and there'll be just lines of

569
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,320
kids waiting to play, whether
it's like Street Fighter or

570
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,200
something, you know?
And then that was, I guess it's

571
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:44,600
the very, very small parallel
version of what esports is now

572
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:50,240
through how spectacularly huge
and successful esports is now.

573
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:55,000
Surely that a brings an
incredible amount more eyeballs

574
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,920
and and budget to the world of,
of gaming in general, but also

575
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:03,080
allows so many more people to
actually make a living in

576
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,360
various means from, you know, I
know you've got to be super good

577
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,480
to, to get to those those ranks
and things.

578
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:13,360
But it does feel like quite a,
an aspirational thing, which

579
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,640
doesn't rely on like
professional sports relies on

580
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,160
genetic gifts.
Whereas theoretically to someone

581
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:24,120
like me E sports, yes, it would
rely on some mental and and

582
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,160
reaction gifts and things.
But it does feel like something

583
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,720
that everybody could aspire to
get to.

584
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,960
If you're short, you go, oh,
well, I can't play basketball.

585
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,400
But this is like everyone, all
they need is to play a game.

586
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,560
I think sadly, I think because
we've told people our ages, I

587
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,600
think our our time is is done.
I think our Twitch reactions are

588
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:46,120
probably too, too slow,
especially if we well, for most

589
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:49,880
things, most E sports are, are
Twitch reaction driven.

590
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:54,160
So like shooting or sports
tactical awareness kind of

591
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,800
thing.
So we're we're probably put out

592
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:58,640
to pasture at this point, but
yeah, like.

593
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,320
No doubt and.
And every game has if it's not E

594
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,280
sports directly and you know,
like big spectacles at stadiums

595
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,760
with people watching you like
battlefields or whatever you

596
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,480
want to play has like a ranking
system rematch the game I was

597
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:11,880
talking about before the soccer
game.

598
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,720
You know, like I I think I'm in
gold league.

599
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,320
I, I don't think I'll ever
aspire to hit Diamond League,

600
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,880
but you know, like I, I can kind
of compete with people at my

601
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,960
level or where the game thinks
I'm at in terms of my level and

602
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:28,200
aspire to do better or realise
I've, I've hit the the ceiling

603
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,320
and, and need to find another
game or something.

604
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,440
To play the, the Masters League,
I was, I was speaking to someone

605
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,920
recently that they, they said
they were like doing masters

606
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,200
sports and they were 36.
And I was like, whoa.

607
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,800
I thought that was for people
that are like 70, you know.

608
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:46,520
Yeah.
So that's, I don't think that's

609
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,160
something that I'll be, I will
be doing becoming an an E sports

610
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,920
pro.
But how has that, you know,

611
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,800
hyper competitive environment
and even mindset?

612
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,200
Does that affect the way that,
say, casual players might look

613
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:01,920
at games?
Does it affect the way that

614
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:06,280
potentially publishers build
games thinking that it will end

615
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:08,600
up in one of these arenas being
played?

616
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:10,160
How?
How much of a consideration is

617
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,360
that?
It depends, I guess, on on the

618
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,800
developer's intent.
A good example of of something

619
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,520
absolutely impacting the other
is a game called Overwatch.

620
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:23,880
So it was developed by Blizzard
and Overwatch had this grand

621
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,400
goal of of being like the next E
sports thing to the point where

622
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,920
they created the Overwatch
League.

623
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:34,800
Activision was selling licences
like franchises to different

624
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,440
entities, conglomerates,
whatever to, you know, to buy,

625
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,960
you know, the Los Angeles team
or to buy the whatever team.

626
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,880
And a lot of the work would kind
of go back and forth.

627
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,200
So the oh, the league needs this
to happen.

628
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,200
So maybe we'll make a couple
tweaks here that impact the

629
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:51,920
general game.
Sometimes they had them like

630
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,040
running separately.
Ultimately, I think that the

631
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,280
league kind of failed because
they were trying to make it more

632
00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:01,200
of a big deal than people right
accepted it to be.

633
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,360
But that's a good example of of
someone doing that specifically

634
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,000
with that in mind.
Fighting games are are better

635
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,960
examples maybe of people just
kind of deciding they're going

636
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,000
to make a league around it.
So there's tournaments like Evo

637
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,560
with Mortal Kombat and Street
Fighter, like you were saying,

638
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:20,560
even Super Smash Brothers, the
Nintendo mascot fighter, where

639
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,520
they'll just have tournaments
and you know, maybe, maybe rules

640
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:27,600
this this one fighter is is too
overpowered or has these moves

641
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,520
that are too hard to to deal
with.

642
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,560
So like, you can't play as that
person for this tournament, that

643
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,520
kind.
Of thing it's it does sound

644
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,320
actually quite fun and you know,
they introducing kind of

645
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,600
handicaps that they brought in
when someone gets a little bit

646
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:44,960
too good and out of hand.
But it's just, it seems, as

647
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,760
we've been saying, the modern
gaming landscape is just so big.

648
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,080
Now we've, we've spoken about
NES, right?

649
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,960
You pull the cartridge out of
the box, you put it in the thing

650
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:57,080
if it doesn't work, like you
blow on all the electric bits

651
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,320
until you break the game and
it's like, that's it, you know?

652
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,440
But now there's just an
infinitely large world of people

653
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,000
and, and things going on.
For someone just getting into

654
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,880
games now, if they're feeling
overwhelmed by the modern gaming

655
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,360
landscape, how would you direct
them or what advice would you

656
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:17,000
give them to find a good
community and a good experience

657
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:18,840
for a beginner?
Wow.

658
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:23,120
Well, and that's, that's a hard
question because so many of us

659
00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:27,600
are quote unquote gamers and
maybe don't realise that or

660
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,960
accept it or acknowledge it or
choose to identify as that.

661
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:38,320
You know, my mother in They,
they have like 7 of them now and

662
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,960
they do the crossword, the New
York Times crossword and the age

663
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:45,040
crossword on their iPad.
That's technically you're

664
00:34:45,199 --> 00:34:47,600
playing video games.
But like, that's not to say you

665
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,120
have to be a gamer.
It's pick and choose.

666
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,280
Like there are, there are people
that I know who love Star Trek,

667
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:55,760
barely play a video game.
They have a switch for their

668
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,280
kids and like, oh great.
There's, there's this narrative

669
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:02,440
game in a Telltale game style
called Star Trek Resurgence that

670
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,360
just came out on Switch.
And it's like perfect for that

671
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:09,440
person because the original
version on Xbox and PlayStation

672
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,800
and PC, I tried to get my dad to
play it and he was just a little

673
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,880
bit overwhelmed because he loves
Star Trek and it's a good story

674
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:17,960
that I wanted him to experience.
But he's like, I don't, I gotta

675
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,880
walk this guy around and which
button do I hit?

676
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,120
The Switch 1 is more like a, a
touch screen.

677
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,880
It's almost like it's, it's been
made for someone on an iPad

678
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,120
because there's so many
different ways to play in so

679
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,280
many genres and so many
different experiences.

680
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,360
Like you might just be a
smartphone person.

681
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,360
You might sadly be one of those
people that plays one of those

682
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,920
games that definitely is out to
get all of your money.

683
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,360
I, I wish you wouldn't play
that.

684
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,160
I hope you find a similar
experience on a console.

685
00:35:42,240 --> 00:35:45,600
But then again, the consoles now
cost upwards, you know, like

686
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:49,000
$1000.
So maybe you know, if you spend

687
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,880
100 bucks a month on your pay to
win game thing, like maybe

688
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,200
you're doing it right compared
to to me, I can't really tell

689
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,000
you.
Well, just just on that point

690
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,640
around, you know, like the the
smartphone game,

691
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,920
microtransactions in everything.
You know, I remember I was, I

692
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,480
was getting on a flight and I
downloaded a casino game.

693
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:10,760
I was like, this is awesome.
You know, I'm just going to play

694
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:12,640
this.
It's like no brainer, spin the

695
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,440
roulette, play some poker, you
know, like just stupid stuff,

696
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,320
open it up.
It's like you've got like $50.00

697
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,280
in the casino and then if you
want more, you've got to pay

698
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:23,760
more and more and more and more
things.

699
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:28,120
Would you say though, that the
way that so many things are now,

700
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,080
subscription models rather than
owning anything are

701
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,400
microtransactions and I guess
the financialisation like

702
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,600
through small bites within
games, whether they're

703
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,880
smartphone or, you know, through
servers and things, is that just

704
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,720
games and publishers aligning
with the way people are moving

705
00:36:43,720 --> 00:36:46,160
to pay for things these days?
So it's a bit more natural.

706
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:50,600
Late stage capitalism.
I've played like 300 hours of

707
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:55,280
Star Trek Online, a massively
multiplayer online game, Same

708
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:56,920
idea.
It's free to play.

709
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,360
I I spend 100 bucks every once
in a while because there's like

710
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,560
a Starship that was on the TV
that I really, really want and

711
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,080
I'm fine with that.
And then there are people who

712
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,800
probably spend far more money
than I do, which is sad.

713
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:13,040
But I guess on the flip side,
all of that money that's being

714
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:17,320
made by the studio, they will
pay developers to make new

715
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:21,280
chapters of the storyline and
hire the actress who played

716
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,920
Seven of Nine from Star Trek
Voyager to come in and, like,

717
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:25,960
record lines.
And there's new content that I

718
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:27,600
get to play for free.
So I didn't answer that.

719
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:29,200
I'd sidestep that question
altogether.

720
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,760
I mean, that's a good point.
Let's take that one on as well.

721
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:33,880
You said that, you know the
developers might bring in new

722
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:37,400
people to create new content and
and chapters for the game.

723
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:41,640
Does that bring more new,
surprising perspectives that the

724
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,000
developers could never have
imagined the the games

725
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,080
potentially heading down that
path when they originally had

726
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,000
the idea?
Like, how, how does that work?

727
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,880
Like what?
What's a game that has started

728
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,400
out in one thing and then
through getting unexpected

729
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:56,960
people involved, has gone off in
another direction?

730
00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,240
Early Access games is my answer
to that.

731
00:37:59,240 --> 00:38:02,640
So there there's a quite a lot
of games, mostly on on PC on

732
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:06,880
Steam, where you can start
playing kind of like an in

733
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,600
development version of a game or
an idea and provide your

734
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,960
feedback to developers.
And that will eventually turn

735
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:17,560
the game into its one point O
release or its full release.

736
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,040
And it could be anything from a
shooter to a a real time

737
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:25,600
strategy, a deck building game
with cards going back really

738
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:28,160
quickly to your casino game that
you bought.

739
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,840
If you haven't played a game
called Bilatro, you absolutely

740
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,600
need to.
It's on smartphone, it's on

741
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:37,080
every console that you can
imagine.

742
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,120
It's like a poker game, but
that's like doing it a

743
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,720
disservice.
Doesn't have microtransactions.

744
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,240
So like that there and there are
developers doing that.

745
00:38:45,240 --> 00:38:47,080
Like I, I just want to put out a
game.

746
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,720
That guy's made money hand over
fist for doing that because he's

747
00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:52,600
not trying to like, you know,
nickel and dime you inside the

748
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:54,360
game.
You, you pay your, your amount

749
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,480
upfront and you're good to go.
Subscriptions like, I'm just

750
00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:59,200
sorry, I'm hitting all these
things that you've talked about

751
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,240
recently.
Subscriptions, late stage

752
00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:04,400
capitalism.
Once again, probably the biggest

753
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:08,000
one that comes to mind is Xbox
Game Pass, which is Microsoft's

754
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,520
big subscription thing.
And the downside, like you were

755
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,800
saying, you don't own any of
these games and there's larger

756
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,360
implications talking about
buying digital games anyway.

757
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,000
But this, this is a really clear
cut example of you're

758
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:22,040
subscribing to a service.
It has so many games in this

759
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,920
library, like a Netflix style
kind of access, but you know,

760
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:27,400
one month, the next the game
that you were playing might not

761
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,760
be in the library next month.
So no, there you go.

762
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:32,080
If you want it, you got to go
pay for it.

763
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,280
But some people really like
that, like they'll churn through

764
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,240
games, say they want new stuff.
They don't want to have to spend

765
00:39:37,240 --> 00:39:40,040
$100 on a game each time they
want to play a new game.

766
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:42,400
They just want to get this
library, play what's there,

767
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:44,080
churn through it, get to the
next one.

768
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,520
And like, again, there's no
right or wrong way to do it.

769
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:49,360
Microsoft, though, is incredibly
problematic at the moment.

770
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:51,480
They've acquired a lot of
companies.

771
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,440
They've also laid off a whole
bunch of developers within all

772
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,960
of those companies.
King and Candy Crush is a really

773
00:39:57,960 --> 00:39:59,640
good example.
Like everyone's heard of Candy

774
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:01,760
Crush.
I have never played it, but I.

775
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:04,520
Everyone else I know.
About a little, a little phase

776
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:07,360
of playing it.
I, I remember because it worked,

777
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:11,080
it was, it was the only thing
that didn't need a cellular

778
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:13,680
signal or, or like Wi-Fi to
work.

779
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:17,320
And I remember I, you know,
through various reasons, I, I

780
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:20,280
would find myself in this place
where, you know, like the

781
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:22,640
comfort thing for anyone to do
is just say, Oh yeah, I'll just

782
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:24,520
pull out the phone.
And obviously nothing works

783
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,000
except Candy Crush.
So I smashed through a bunch of

784
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,440
levels on there.
And, you know, I enjoyed it for

785
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,040
what it was, but as soon as I
was out of that zone, I wouldn't

786
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:33,920
look at it again.
But just on your point there

787
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,920
around the Game Pass
subscription model, does that

788
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:39,720
also bring similar kind of
benefits that Netflix does?

789
00:40:39,720 --> 00:40:42,160
Right?
Like you pay a flat fee, you

790
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:44,880
might start watching something
you don't like it, you're not

791
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:46,440
really financially invested in
it.

792
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:48,200
You're just like, eh, I'll just
move on to something else.

793
00:40:48,240 --> 00:40:50,720
So if PE if people can do that
through all these games through

794
00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:55,040
a subscription model, how much
of them would then go and like

795
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,520
buy the actual game?
Or is it they just keep playing

796
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:01,920
it through the I guess stream?
I don't have stats at hand, but

797
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:04,560
like a lot, a lot of what
Microsoft's been saying about

798
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:06,960
Game Pass is that it is working
in that way.

799
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,560
And it could be because you
start playing a game, you really

800
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:13,200
like it and you realise it's
leaving the calendar next month

801
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:14,520
and you're not going to have
time to finish it.

802
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:16,440
So you buy it so you can keep
playing.

803
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,400
Or it's you really, really like
it and want to support the

804
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:21,680
people making it.
So you decide to purchase it to

805
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:24,640
make sure you get a new one or,
or you know, something new from

806
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:26,840
that developer.
So it, it could work in, in both

807
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:28,600
ways.
A lot of developers say it's

808
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:32,000
it's a good way to get their
game out there in front of

809
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:33,680
people's faces.
And then of course there's

810
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,320
people who say that it's a RIP
off and, you know, it's

811
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:40,360
Microsoft killing creativity and
and development And so yeah,

812
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:42,360
like.
It's look, I could I could, I

813
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:44,560
could understand both sides of
of that coin.

814
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:48,320
And you know, like the the one
price trial, a million different

815
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,240
things sounds amazing for
someone like me.

816
00:41:51,240 --> 00:41:53,360
So it's just, oh, I'll just test
it out for a little while.

817
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:55,680
I don't know what sort of games
are like they're like games

818
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,000
where I drive a car, you know, I
don't need to do the races.

819
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,760
I just go looking around at
stuff that's that's good for me.

820
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:06,560
But just on that kind of
subscription model, where do you

821
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:10,240
think the, I guess the business
side of of gaming evolves over

822
00:42:10,240 --> 00:42:13,840
say the next decade?
Will it remain or even get more

823
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:18,160
subscription based or do we kind
of get to a point where players

824
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:22,160
demand a bit more of a return to
a one time purchase model?

825
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:24,880
I, I hope the latter is the
case.

826
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:26,880
I think it's probably going to
be more subscriptions.

827
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,760
Kind of like, you know, there,
there was Netflix, now there's

828
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:34,280
Netflix and Hulu and Disney and
Stan and Binge and all of the,

829
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:38,480
the major publishers have
dabbled or are, are doing or are

830
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:42,200
considering similar things.
Like PlayStation has their own

831
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:43,520
version.
Nintendo has their own version

832
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:45,320
now, but everyone has their own
version.

833
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:47,960
It's, it's good and bad.
Like we're also seeing kind of

834
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:51,080
more the late stage capital,
some stuff like just the big

835
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:56,000
dogs buying all of the studios,
getting rid of half the staff at

836
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:57,640
that studio.
Because, you know, we already

837
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:00,160
have the comms team or we
already have people who can do

838
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:05,120
this with King and Candy Crush.
They've got developers using AI

839
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:07,040
to like automate some of what
they do.

840
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,440
So they can then get rid of
those people and let the

841
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:12,520
automation take over some of the
work, which like that's, that's

842
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:15,360
to me is a horrible thing
because you're missing out on

843
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:18,160
the the creative side that those
people will bring.

844
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,760
I can like, you know, generate
new Candy Crush levels, but it's

845
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,960
only going to generate new Candy
Crush levels based on what has

846
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:27,360
been, not an idea that someone
has.

847
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,200
It can be implemented.
I get horribly dystopian and I

848
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:31,440
hope it's not going to be the
Case, No.

849
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:33,720
Go for it, go for it.
Well, no, I just, yeah, in

850
00:43:33,720 --> 00:43:36,480
general, it's, it's looking kind
of bleak and I hope we get

851
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,800
through this in in more aspects
than just video games.

852
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,200
Oh yeah, look at me, Me too.
And it is, you know, everybody's

853
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,240
talking about AI at the moment
and positives and negatives and

854
00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:48,960
there's so much bleakness and
you follow that too far.

855
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:50,720
And it's just like, well, we're
going to turn that off.

856
00:43:50,720 --> 00:43:53,320
But, and think about, you know,
like, say some more of the

857
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:57,040
positives.
But as that tech gets better,

858
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:01,880
let's say it does get the
ability to, to create new ideas.

859
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,960
Do you think that the evolution,
the further evolution I should

860
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:09,400
say, of, of technology and and
connectivity through the

861
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:13,440
Internet, we'll eventually be
able to deliver a uniquely

862
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,200
customised game experience for
every player?

863
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:18,640
Let's say you're in a fully of
mercy of helmet playing this

864
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,160
thing and you're almost not not
playing a game.

865
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:25,080
Now you're in another world, but
it's completely unique to you

866
00:44:25,240 --> 00:44:26,920
and no one else will get the
same thing.

867
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,200
Maybe this is already happening
and I just don't know, but do

868
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:32,520
you think that things will
eventually get to that point?

869
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,720
To take this from bleak to
extremely like, hopeful and

870
00:44:35,720 --> 00:44:38,000
optimistic.
If I could have a Star Trek

871
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:41,640
holodeck, if I could walk into a
room and just say computer, make

872
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:47,360
me detective in a 1960s pulp,
you know, not like, yes, like,

873
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:49,240
let's do that.
I would be happy to do that.

874
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:51,760
I wouldn't care what was what
was done in the background to

875
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:53,680
make it happen.
Let's do it.

876
00:44:53,720 --> 00:44:56,520
Holodecks for everyone.
That's, that's funny.

877
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,520
It's like, you know, that show
Westworld and, and there was

878
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,480
that episode, what was that
episode of Black Mirror as well,

879
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:05,400
where they're living in, you
know, their, their idealised

880
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,560
life while they're on the
outside, just the body there,

881
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:12,160
which is, I mean, look, if if we
can kind of just plug into the

882
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:14,760
perfect world for a little bit,
maybe that will offset the

883
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,680
bleakness that we could
potentially encounter everywhere

884
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:19,400
else.
And the other bit about the Star

885
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:23,080
Trek holodeck specifically is
that Star Trek is this utopian

886
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,680
society where we've gotten rid
of hunger and Favin and disease

887
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:30,520
and people are smart enough and
well adjusted enough to go and

888
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:33,880
maybe have a holodeck experience
for an hour or two and then

889
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:35,480
leave and go back to their
regular life.

890
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,240
So I think that balance is also
something that that we need to

891
00:45:38,240 --> 00:45:42,040
strive for and that if I got
bleak again, might be creeping

892
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:46,160
its way into some of our lives,
which is needing, we need to fix

893
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:47,560
that kind of stuff.
Yeah, yeah.

894
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:49,800
Look, is there's so much to
think about there.

895
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,280
We could probably spend hours
just talking about that.

896
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,360
But but on that note, just to
finish up, we've been talking

897
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:59,240
about how the Internet and
connectivity and and technology

898
00:45:59,240 --> 00:46:02,840
has impacted and influenced
games, the culture and and the

899
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:04,720
community.
What would you say in your

900
00:46:04,720 --> 00:46:08,760
opinion has been the best part
of that happening and how would

901
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:10,680
you like it to continue as we
move forward?

902
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:12,960
Well, I'm just going to turn it
back to me.

903
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:16,040
Like I I wouldn't be able to
talk about video games with you

904
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:20,000
without having the Internet,
without deciding randomly to

905
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:24,560
take my travel blog and write
about Resident Evil 5 and have

906
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:28,280
people somehow, I guess through
the power of the Google

907
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:31,840
algorithm, read it, decide they
wanted to interact with me,

908
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:35,040
start writing for me, or start
reading what I write and, and

909
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:37,920
letting me build something
amazing and fabulous.

910
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:40,640
And that's my experience as a
games journal.

911
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:44,120
I get to meet developers and
other Gerdos and people from not

912
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:47,360
only Australia but around the
world and developers do that.

913
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:51,200
They can get jobs now remotely
and work for Activision or

914
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:54,880
whoever they want.
It makes dreams and I hope that

915
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:58,720
kind of thing continues on and
people get to to connect and

916
00:46:58,720 --> 00:47:02,040
have adventures that they might
not have had without this

917
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:05,560
fantastic little invention.
What a brilliantly positive note

918
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:08,680
to to finish up on.
Thanks Steve.

919
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:11,320
What's on the horizon for you
and where can people follow what

920
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,320
you're up to?
Always busy, always video games.

921
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:16,720
It's it's getting close to the
holiday season so all the big

922
00:47:16,720 --> 00:47:19,640
hitters are coming out.
I'm playing NHL, which I know

923
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:22,480
Australians don't care about,
but it's like the Canadian guys

924
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:26,040
dream all of our stuff in terms
of of the video games website is

925
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:30,000
on survivor.com.
I'm S Wright AU, mostly on Blue

926
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:32,720
Sky.
Find me on the Internet and I've

927
00:47:32,720 --> 00:47:35,280
just started picking up a gig
writing some stuff for Trek

928
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:37,160
movie.
Mostly video game related, but

929
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:39,880
sometimes not so you can find me
there.

930
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:42,320
Awesome, Steve.
Thank you so much.

931
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:43,800
My pleasure.
Thanks so much.

932
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:47,320
For more info on what we've
discussed today, check out the

933
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:49,280
show notes.
If you enjoyed this one, you can

934
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:51,400
subscribe to Ruined by the
Internet on your favourite

935
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:54,560
podcast app and help spread the
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936
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:57,200
leaving a review.
I'm Gareth King, see you next

937
00:47:57,200 --> 00:47:57,440
time.